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Jeep Talk Show

A Show About Jeeps!

Episode 457 – The Illegitimate Leaf Spring


This episode brought to you in part by NEXEN Tire. Nexen tire has been around for 77 years. Nexen has made passenger and SUV tires along with street performance for many years, most recently have started making off road tires. The Nexen Roadian MTX is amazing long time off roaders with it’s all around fantastic performance in mud or rocks. Find out more about Nexen tires by going to Nexen tire u s a dot com right now. That’s https://nexentireusa.com.

 

This Week In Jeep: 

So it turns out Jeep CAN throw a curveball. What I mean by that is historically, the concept photos we see of upcoming Jeep vehicles are usually just that. Artist renditions of what it MIGHT look like. Or they come in the physical form like the ones we see every year at the easter Jeep safari. Jeeps so futuristic or purpose built, you can’t help but drool and daydream just looking at them. But deep down we all know that they will never see the light of an assembly line in Ohio. So it came as quite a shock when just this week it was confirmed by head of Jeep Jim Morrison that the Jeep Grand Wagoneer concept that was revealed in early September offered more than just a sneak peek at an upcoming production vehicle. Well, two of them, technically. By his own words, what you see is pretty much what you’ll get on showroom floors.  If you don’t know, Jeep will “soon” be launching an all-new Grand Wagoneer along with a Wagoneer that is also based on the concept but will carry both name badges. But what will set them apart? I mean comparatively, the Grand Cherokee is larger than the Cherokee, so the distinction has ALWAYS been real easy. Well according to the head of Jeep himself, Jim Morrison said in a recent press release, that the Grand, in this case, will mean trim level, the more premium trim to be more specific. We now have confirmation from Jeep that both trim levels will be offered in standard and long-wheelbase versions as well, just like the big SUVs from Ford and GM. This means the Wagoneer will compete with the Ford Expedition and Chevy Tahoe, while the Grand Wagoneer will match up against the Lincoln Navigator and Cadillac Escalade. Make sense? And really it’s no comparison, I can hear the JD Power awards getting engraved as we speak. Morrison also said that the concept pictures released by Jeep, represents the smaller model and is pretty much what you’ll see when the vehicles go on sale, save for some of the extensive exterior lighting accents and a few other small design touches. We still have yet to hear exactly WHEN we can expect to see these new Jeeps in dealerships, or even what powertrains will be behind the grille. And just because I get great joy in doing so, I’m going to SPOIL it for all you Easter egg hunters right now.  The grille on the Wagoneer that is about to be released… is canted at the exact same angle as the original Wagoneer grille was. The concept is also being billed as a plug-in hybrid, and multiple powertrain options are likely, along with three different four-wheel-drive systems that will provide increasing levels of off-road capability. Anxious to see one for yourself? So are we. As soon as they hit the showroom floors, we’ll let you know. 

Does This Picture “TRIGGER” you!?!?

Let me describe what you’re seeing. Mountain scenery, lots of shrubs, bushes and trees surround this wide pathway leading to what looks like a larger trail with a trailhead marker and a sign post. So we have a mountain, some plants, a trail, a Jeep and a sign. What’s the big deal right? Honestly, if you are the person who even has triggers, we probably can’t be friends. Ordinarily I don’t like to call people out. Ordinarily, I keep to myself, or otherwise leave people to their own opinions and devices. Oh sure I like to give advice and I’m definitely the kind of person that will lend a hand or help someone out. And yes, I’ve even been known to get a little enthusiastic here on the show… But when I came across this drivel of an article, I had to put my finger to the keyboard and draft a reply.  The editorial, if it could even be considered as such, is a crying testament to the growing pussification of this nation by the exponential increase of people like the author, who are upset, disgusted, utterly offended if not outraged by virtually anything that interrupts the world they’ve created inside their perfect little bubble. The sound of a dirt bike or smell of a cheeseburger, a difference of opinion, a questioning of facts or god forbid an environmentally destructive Jeep Cherokee out in the wilderness! … GASP!  I know… oh the horror! For most of us this is a common sight, one might go so far as to say that Jeep, ANY Jeep “belongs” out in nature and not shackled to the white and yellow stripes of the black topped super slabs of the concrete jungle. But when this Zack Floss snowflake came prancing down his favorite skipping trail, and saw a Jeep next to this protected wilderness trail head, he bout filled his romper right then and there. His column goes on and on about the audacity and brash carelessness that seems to be on the rise with these Jeep owners. He cries and whines endlessly like his beloved nature has somehow been viciously raped in front of his very eyes by the mere sight of this vehicle in these protected lands. He can’t even fathom or wrap his head around the fact that he is seeing a vehicle where he is seeing it. Seriously, there’s like two paragraphs just on that. And endless babbling painting this picture of how if something isn’t done to stop these eco-hating villains that the world as we know it will come crashing down around us in a fiery hell of gasoline, tires and exhaust fumes. All because the Jeep owner, who just so happened to be a veteran – and we’ll come back to that in a second – drove past a gate thinking it was an open trail. I’ll be the first to agree that he was in the wrong, and shouldn’t have been there. Alcohol didn’t seem to be a factor, and since captain snowflake reported the Jeep owner speaking with a Ranger, we can assume there was a degree of negligence in knowing how to read a trailhead marker. All that being said, who the hell does this columnist think he is coming out with paragraph after paragraph of righteous indignation over a simple, harmless accident involving a little oversight, and nothing else. But to insinuate that there was malice and intent behind this Jeep being up on a mountain… on a trail… that (by his own words) was big enough for an emergency vehicle, goes way beyond bad journalism and delves right into the realm of libel. Yes the guy shouldn’t have been there, but unlike the jeep that was stuck on the top of a mountain on a BIKE TRAIL, this involved much less ignorance and stupidity. Sure there was some “stupid” to-go-around, but to then to put it out there in what was such a gross display of a lack of control one has over their emotions I’m surprised the Adirondack Daily Enterprise has not fired this yahoo for this degree of gross unprofessionalism. I believe the term is “making a mountain out of a molehill”  … which is the understatement of the year as literally HALF the article is him bashing vets in one sentence using terms for the armed services of this nation like insidious force for neo-colonial exploitation, but then in the very next sentence tries to save face by referring to them as staunch defenders of democracy and freedom around the world. But only under the context that they had sacrificed life limb and mental health. He desperately backtracks by going on for another two or three paragraphs about objectivity and the importance of seeing both sides of any story. Yea, sure pal, but we can read between the lines here, you’re not fooling anyone. And if anyone wants this guy’s email address to share a piece of your mind with him like I did, I’ll be happy to give it to ya. ZACK FLOSS

Newbie Nuggets:

With so many trails shut down due to fires, or forest service closing them for precautions, I figured if you needed something to do, why not do an inspection of your jeep and make sure it’s all ready to go when the trails open back up. We have discussed inspecting your jeep after a trail run (episode 436 & 443) but today I wanted to suggest a more thorough inspection. Not on the trail but in your driveway and with no time constraint. Since you can’t do a run why not inspect and really check out your jeep. Here are the items my husband checked on our jeep. Now the more extreme runs dictate a more thorough inspection so easy runs are not as detailed. If you only drive fire roads or use your jeep as your daily driver then this list is for you; Check for visible leaks of any fluids. If your jeep has been sitting, this should be an easy check. If there is fluid on the ground, you have an issue, if not you may be in the clear. Leaks could be oil, coolant, power steering, fuel, brake fluid, or rodents that you may have run over last month. Next, recheck your tire pressures. When you air up at the end of the trail before hitting the HWY, most people use a compressor. Compressing air heats and expands the air, plus the working compressor gets hot, further heating and expanding the air. If you inflate your tires to 30 PSI, by the time you get home, it has cooled, and you may see lower pressures just due to the cooler air condensing and “shrinking” in volume which equates to lower tire pressures. Also, not as critical, but if you were at altitude when you aired up and drove down to sea level or there are thousands of feet elevation change from beginning to end, it will affect your pressures. Ambient air pressure (14.7 psi at sea level vs 12.2 psi at 5,000 ft) and temperature affects the overall tire pressure. It’s usually best to recheck the tires the morning after you return from a run once they have had a chance to acclimate to your typical altitude and temperatures. Just good to check since the jeep has been sitting. If you generally run more extreme wheeling you will want to check the above plus these added items; Besides tire pressure, check for other issues with our tires. If you were skating against rocks with low tire pressures it may be possible to grind the rocks into grit that possibly ends up between your wheel’s rim and the bead of your tire. This could create enough space for air to escape at a very slow rate. Really annoying. We also look for gouges, typically on the side walls, that may develop into a failure.  If you aired your tires down properly, they should wrap around and absorb most sharp objects, but, it’s better to discover this in your driveway instead of your morning commute or next run. Next we look for mechanical failures or stresses. Bill has found more things ready to fail by roaming around under the Jeep on his back or on a creeper. Which by the way is a great tool to use if you have enough ground clearance. Look at the shocks. Do they appear to be leaking? Are the shafts bent, are the attachments loose or missing bolts. Maybe you bounced off a rock just enough to dent the housing. Not good. While looking for leaks, if you still have stock differential covers and have been doing a little rock ballet, it’s possible to “peel” back your diff cover just enough to cause a slow leak. Really annoying on your driveway or garage floor, but more importantly, if you run your diff dry, it’ll be REALLY expensive to fix. And, of course, the “while you’re in there” phrase always drives the price and time off the trail way up. And a quick side note to all you new JL owners: it’s a good idea to check your diff. drain plugs because a lot of them are coming loose from the factory. Next take a look at the suspension components. Most times you can ride a rock with a lower control arm and it will only scratch it. However, extreme flexing will really stress the rubber grommets at the ends of the control arms. We had a kit that didn’t come with upper control arms. So, when we flexed the stock upper control arms while rock crawling the upper control arms were used beyond their normal design duty. We had to replace the front upper control arm rear bushings at the frame a couple of times. And, as we all know, anything loose in the front suspension on a Jeep gets really exciting at 40-50 MPH when the “death wobble” rears its ugly head. That’s why we finally went with Rock Jock adjustable upper control arms with Johnny Joints. These things are stout!  They are fully adjustable billet control arms. They allow us to adjust the caster on the front axle after lifting it 4”. Big advantage. Also, we haven’t had a single issue with joint attachment failures. Proper axle alignment will be a discussion in an upcoming episode. We also check ball joints, tie rod ends, drag link ends, steering box slop or “play.”  If you do enough off-roading, these items will eventually wear out, leading back to the dreaded “death wobble.” Another thing to look for is where the front driveshaft is closest to the automatic transmission as it extends from the front of the transfer case to the front axle pinion yoke.  I’m not sure about the later JK’s or JL’s but the 2007-2011 have a clearance issue when slightly lifted and extreme flexing. When you flex your front axle, the driveshaft contacts the transmission. The first thing that happens is the drive shaft dust boot gets ripped off. Then the driveshaft will actually hit the transmission enough to peel the pan away from the body of the transmission and next thing you know, you got a leak. This can be remedied with a quality after-market driveshaft like the one from JE Reel we have sitting on the bench waiting for installation. So, these are just a few things to look for. There are lots that can wear, loosen, bend, break and leak. It’s a machine and requires inspection and maintenance so that you get many miles and service out of it. You can’t always depend on your local shop to find all these things in a typical service. Sometimes it’s a cost issue. It’s not just a lube, oil and filter. It takes someone with the knowledge of what to look for and that takes time. Time is money so depending on your level of mechanical abilities you may want to save some money and do these inspections yourself. You can always take the jeep into a mechanic and tell them what you found, rather than say ‘hey can you inspect my jeep and tell me if I have any issues that need fixed?” Yeah, that would cost you a bunch. If you have mechanical abilities I think it’s a great idea to inspect your Jeep yourself. It costs less, you begin to understand what’s going on underneath your Jeep and you may gain the knowledge and experience needed to help out a fellow Jeeper on the trail that didn’t do their inspections before going back out on the trail. And you have the time right now so why not give it a try. Have fun, learn your vehicle, and prevent breakdowns and don’t forget that “while you’re in there…” could be a fun way to upgrade…..

Tech Talk With Jeep Talk: 

Chances are the leaf springs in the back of your Jeep Cherokee XJ are sagging more than grandma on a hot day. Obviously replacing them is the most straightforward option, but buying new ones can definitely get expensive and may be out of reach for many XJ owners. The solution? Bastard Packs, Franken Packs, or Franken-Leafs, they all mean the same thing. Pieces of other leaf spring packs joined together to create a whole new monster…. All you gotta do is head to a scrap yard and see what you can muster up.  You can take whole leaf packs from other Cherokees, or you can take springs from other vehicles and make stronger leaf packs. The Cherokee uses 2.5-inch wide leaves, which fortunately for you, is a pretty common size. These are used on Jeep Comanchees, the Dodge Dakota and Durango, Ford’s Ranger, and the Chevy S-10, so there should be plenty of choices when it comes to the donor vehicles. Keep the main leaf from your Cherokee, but don’t be afraid to throw the rest of it out.  The less difference in length between the leaves, the more rigid it will be. The more difference in leaf lengths, and you will get more flex, but possibly less lift. Regardless of how you build the pack, you will see at least SOME lift, unless you just rebuild it in stock form. Otherwise you can expect to see anywhere between 2 to 3.5 inches of lift depending on how you build the pack. And voila! …for a fraction of the price you just built yourself a set of new-to-you leafs ready to lift or improve the back end of your Jeep Cherokee XJ.

Jeep Life:

Tools Actually Used On The Trail

Hi guys. I had a great time visiting my kids this past weekend. I ended up taking one of those puddle jumpers from the valley to Denver instead of driving my Jeep and parking it at the airport. HOLY MOLY. That was scarier than Hell’s Revenge. I thought we were going to crash in the mountains. It was like a rollercoaster ride. However, on the way back the plane ride was one of the best I have ever been on. Okay on to the Jeep Life… So, it seems the theme lately has been about being prepared when you hit the trails. Being prepared by bringing the tools you may need while out wheeling on the trails. There are lists all over the internet for what you need to pack into your Jeep before begin your off road adventure.  Recovery gear and tools and camping equipment. I have also done several videos on YouTube like my top 5 recovery gear, top 5 tools, top 5 fluids etc. But what have I actually used while on those 4 x 4 trails? Let’s start with the first time I broke my Jeep. I was wheeling at Rausch Creek and slammed into a rock. My steering went wacko and I could not turn. Turns out I knocked my steering stabilizer. I was a little freaked out… unnecessarily…  I did not realize at the time that you do not really need your steering stabilizer. So, the guys on the trail helped me take off the stabilizer and then when we got of the trail we put it back on. The only tool we needed for this was an 18 mm wrench. For the JK’s and JKU’s this is a must have tool in your toolbox. As I began wheeling more difficult trails my recovery gear became super useful.  Not for me tony but others who needed a tow or a tug. I have used my recovery strap, tree saver, d ring, soft shackle and snatch block quite off often. My favorite being the soft shackle.  And my Winch. I used it several times on the Rubicon Trail. Okay Tony so yes, I used it once getting myself up over a waterfall in Arizona. I was super stuck. After a 59 point turn, I was in between a rock and a rock. So, pulling myself up over that waterfall I needed two more “tools” the Hi-lift jack and a Colby valve. I had tore my valve stem. The air started leaking from the tire and Pop! I lost the bead. My Jeep was in a very precarious spot on the rocks and changing the tire was going to be extremely dangerous. Luckily another Jeeper had a Colby valve and it was a super quick easy repair. Pull out the old valve stem and twist in the Colby Valve. I know keep several of them in my Jeep. During my adventures with Neil and our shakedown runs with the Jeeps we flip, we have used different Pry bars, ratchet straps, extra u joints, ratchet, and sockets and a bfh. A Big Effing hammer. Banging over the rocks plays havoc on those parts underneath the Jeep. Those ratchet straps can hold your Jeep together until you get it off the trail. The cool thing about the Jeep community is You may not have it all together but together you will have it all. Don’t get too crazy trying to pack everything and the kitchen sink into your Jeep. It’s good to be prepared. You may not use everything you bring and you may not have everything you need, but you may have things others need and vice versa. Every time you go out you will learn what works for you and your style of wheeling. Just prepare the best you can and grow on that each time. You can head over to my blog JeepMomma.com and my Youtube channel. I have shared several videos on posts on things to bring with you on the trail. Next week I will share the items I use while camping and the items that just sit in my Jeep or bin and I never take out.

Interview with:

Amy Garnat with CORVA California Off-Road Vehicle Association https://corva.org/

Amy is Managing Director of the California Off-Road Vehicle Association, celebrating 50 years of representing off-roaders at all levels of government. Amy was the recipient of the 2019 Impact Award from the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame in the advocacy category. The group is composed of off-road enthusiasts of street legal and off highway registered vehicles such as ATV’s, motorcycles, 3-wheelers, trail bikes, and dune buggies, as well as 4X4 vehicles, dual sport motorcycles, Baja buggies, and desert racers. Plus many others that use motorized access for; hunting, rockhounding, bird watching, fishing and others activities.  CORVA’s main purpose is to work with the land managers for responsible off-highway vehicular access and recreation opportunities. Secondarily, we educate our membership on the constantly changing rules and regulations and promote clean-up and trail maintenance projects.

Campfire Side Chat:

Each week we invite you, the listener to join us around the virtual campfire.  This week we had, Greg L. Tammy, Nathan P. Travis E., Chris, Larry H. and Sean.  The topic for this weeks campfire discussion; Aluminum vs Steel Armor Weight vs Strength,  Which would you choose?  You can join our virtual campfire by subscribing to our newsletter and/or watching for posts on our Facebook Page (https://jeeptalkshow.com/newsletter https://facebook.com/jeeptalkshow)

Links Mentioned in this Episode: 

https://nexentireusa.com/tires/roadian_mtx
https://www.hellwigproducts.com/off-road/
https://www.corva.org/