Worst Off Road Tire
Join Tony as he hosts the Jeep Talk Show Round Table, where we talk directly to you, the listener! In this episode, we dive into questions like “What’s your Jeep Thang?”, “What is the worst off-road tire?”, and the debate between long arms or short arms. With new questions every week, this episode is packed with learning, fun, and engaging discussions. Tune in for insights and entertainment from Jeep enthusiasts like you!
and navigating obstacles was, then just slamming into mud holes and downy holes and stuff like that all the time. It was a lot more enjoyable for me rather than the old mud stuff. So yeah,
I was kind of surprised by that.
Yeah, it’s a big difference. I remember when I got my first four-wheel drive, which was an 83 Chevy pickup. And that’s what off-roading was to me, was getting into mud, especially in Southeast Texas. And it was fun. I think mud is a lot of fun, but oh my God, the cleanup.
Well, the cleanup, and then you think that breaking parts is only a rock crawler thing, but man, the amount of shit you break when you start blasting through mud, it’s just, it’s phantom shit starts going wrong. So instead of like something obvious, like a broken patrol arm mount, it’s a wiring problem because you got so much crap bumped up in there. Waterproof’s something just right. So just mud seems to be a lot more damaging than just the trail riding I’m doing now.
Hey, Bill, what did you learn on your very first Jeep? What was it something that you didn’t know and you learned it when you got through your very first Jeep, your very first off-road Jeep?
So I had wheeled like other vehicles, but they were IFS. And so I guess one of the things I noticed is just with the solid axles, just the stability when you’re starting getting off the number or getting into weird situations. And when I would go back and forth between the Jeep and say my last side by side, like I would get much more tippy in spots, right? So just having, it just gave me like extra additional confidence with that solid axle and just realizing the wheels are connected and just using that to my advantage wheeling.
Well, I think everybody knows this. I think I know this. The IFS is really good for going fast in unstable or unlevel environments. Whereas the axle is kind of better for the go slow and up and over obstacles type thing.
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, I mean, just like I said, when you get situations where you start to kind of get off camper, you’re dropping into a hole, it behaves a lot differently, right? Whereas it feels like on IFS, you get much more tippy, much more easily, it starts to get light wheels coming up off the ground, much quicker, much easier than say in the Jeep where it’ll plant the tire and kind of transfer some of that to the other wheel for the stability. So it just feels more planted when you kind of get in those weird off camper type situations. And I just have what I have to tell myself that when I would go back and forth because I would start doing things that I would feel comfortable with in my Jeep and I’d start to get a little tippy and it’s like, okay, yeah, that’s right. Remember what vehicle you’re in.
So I don’t remember how long you had the side by side after you had linked up with the Jeep talk show, but did you ever get John Lee out there and let him feel the off camper of the side by side?
I think so. I know I went wheeling out there with him and I would troll him with the side by side on some things, but I don’t know if John, did we ever ride together in that thing?
We did, but we did the fast trail stuff. We didn’t really do the off camper. Yeah. I was on that Polaris with that dynamic suspension, blah, blah, blah stuff. So, but you know what’s interesting? Cause that rig, it didn’t really show off camper and it really soaked it up well with that. And I think, you know, kind of what you and Tony were just saying there, I wonder how much of a price point that goes up to to be accurate. Cause if you look at like, say King of the Hammers and the top 10 finishers and like the hardest rock crawling race there is, they’re all IFS rears.
Yeah.
So I think if you could throw $300,000 out of it, I think this, you could overcome those.
Oh, I’m sure.
Yeah, I’m sure, but.
I think the stolen axle is great cause you can modify it much more cost effectively.
Well, a lot of the King of the Hammers is fast though, right? Fast off road.
The last one was about, it was majority rock.
Interesting.
broke off a piston skirt and I’m trying to figure out if I should stroke it or just leave it stopped was
it a high mileage 4.0 because that you can get that piston slap and those skirts will break sometimes when you get
upwards that’s exactly what’s going on right now
you’re down in Texas I’m in Connecticut and a lot of the Jeepsters around here are all right and my Jeep bag I searched far and wide for the thing and it’s got zero rot I think I’m just gonna fix it and keep it for a long time you know I mean
I can’t remember there’s a company in Florida I don’t know I haven’t bought anything from them in a number of years but they were really good with pistons and rings and gasket kits and the whole nine yards is it Titan? Titan motors does that sound familiar to you guys? That was a really good source for pistons and things I won from my friend Matt and I rebuilt the the 4.0 I’ve got in my XJ now it was all from from Titan I think that’s right I believe it’s Titan so but I’ve had really good luck with them I mean this motor that is in there now gosh I probably got over a hundred thousand miles after the rebuild so
I’ve got two 4.0 long blocks at my shop right now and I think honestly I’m just gonna put new gaskets in one of them and just put it in it’s got under a hundred thousand miles around it oh okay and I’m just gonna basically rebuild it you know I mean and just wheel it yeah
absolutely well if it’s not a daily driver yeah if it’s not a daily driver it’s it’s less less concerning about the internals all right so let’s let’s move along I mentioned that it was gonna mention talk about the fourfestevents.com coming up this weekend September 6th and 7th at Tally Oaks off-road park so you can see Chris and Natalie there Chris from Jeep talk show and Natalie from high left off-road she’s also helping out with chick-chat and some of the flagship episodes that she’s just doing a great job her and Janet both are just doing a great job and the other Chris the G tops Chris is gonna be there in his brand new 2024 JLU with G tops front and rear if you don’t know about the rear G tops I recommend you go for the G tops.com have a look it’s really cool the whole idea but those tops on the Jeep is I think it’s just fascinating gives you the ability to go off-road drive with the top off that still have it on so to speak I know some of you people call that blasphemy but it’s neat especially when your your wife has trouble taking the tops off by herself and she can just get in there and enjoy it though like a what seems like an open air air environment so fourfestevents.com if you’re in the Michigan area I believe it’s Michigan see about going out there and having a good time with Tom Zielinski he always has a bunch of vendors out there and this year Chris from G tops is gonna be there. Alright so this is a great question for Greg who I don’t think is with us tonight but Greg always says there’s there’s no reason to go with long arms but what about what do you guys think do you have short I mean are you do everybody has short arms do you have long arms in your future and as I understand it’s a little less likely for JKs and JLs and especially the JTs but maybe more important for TJs and XJs. Bill let’s let’s start with you you got any plans for long arms on your 392 or your 2024 JL you are sure JL
no not at all I mean maybe if I was gonna go bombing through the desert or something like that but not for what I do I mean but yeah kind of the stock mid arms are fine
mm-hmm
let’s see who’s in here Oh Chuck Chuck now on the older Jeeps because you’re a lot of your Jeeps are like 81 and older are long arms important for those older Jeeps?
No because they don’t have coil springs so we we run you know your leaf spring and some of my vehicles have you know leaf over the axle some of them have leaf under the axle which is a big change for them the only one that I have with with coil springs would be the gladiator and I have no no desire to do a long-arm kit you know I like like Bill was saying like I’d I’m not gonna go bombing through the desert anytime soon I like it just the way it is
mm-hmm do you think long arms are dead for modern modern Jeeps?
No my buddy Matt who’s a big guy in the Jeepers jamboree just did a long-arm kit on his gladiator but he’s doing it because he’s getting more into the desert scene I mean he’s been doing the Rubicon for 30 years and he does it a dozen times a year and I think it’s getting old for him so he just put a long-arm kit on his and I mean it’s amazing what it can do but he’s getting more into the desert race and then all that kind of stuff for his Jeep so I can understand why he did it.
So staying with the same length control arms that you have have you thought about going with adjustable control arms?
You know I just put the three-inch AEV lift on it I have it other than going to the cabin and doing some you know wheel and going to the cabin I haven’t really done anything yet so I know I’m doing a trip here pretty soon up north so I guess we’ll just see how it rides and and you know I’m a firm believer and you know make a modification change your stuff and then wheel it for you know six months to a year and see.
Yeah it’s a good idea because you never know what what that’s got how that’s gonna affect things.
Right you don’t even I don’t even know if these these springs to really the route that I wanted to go you know and at right now I can tell you I do not like them but I’m not gonna change them until I wheel it for you know a bunch of different times with different scenarios and different people and and then I’ll make the decision and you know next year sometime to hey do I change the ride height do I change the stiffness of the spring and you know move on.
Alright John Lee I know you have a JK you’ve done a lot of modifications to your JK where is long arms in its future?
Possibly I’m not not ruling it out I think you kind of got to be careful when you do long arms on the longer wheelbase rigs like that because those long arms I saw when Andrew had his LJ out of hidden falls you know they hang pretty low and they kind of either way some of your ground clings there so you’re gonna be dragging them on rocks and so by that so if you’re if you’re trail riding a lot then you really got to ask yourself you know am I gonna be I’m gonna be rolling 40s and you know all kinds of other stuff so I’m actually more interested in trying to later that rear setup to remove the rear track bar but I am a long arm though so I do want to play around with the arms but I don’t know if necessarily the traditional long arm is what I’m looking for but I’m open to it there’s beyond just the the high speed and everything else just the the way it reacts to ledges and everything else there’s some good videos out there showing you the geometry the math behind kind of the advantages but I don’t think that you see those advantages and 90% of the rigs out there because they’re not you know huge tires or not big you like it you have to have a well-built rig before you even look at long arms so like if you’re if you just went out and bought a Wrangler and you know you’re looking at what any of the off-the-shelf lifts are probably gonna be a better start than you’re going straight to that massive money of a long arm I think I don’t think I would count it out though so it may be in my future but not immediate I think I got steering issues, Hemi, all kinds of other stuff to work I just now got the axles on it so
mm-hmm well interesting and yeah I mean it’s always good to have a plan it’s nice to know where the where the long arms are on your plan it doesn’t seem to be a critical critical thing so you don’t see a major advantage of getting them on there so that you can do things that you’re not currently able to do. Alright let’s go to Rick. Rick since you have a TJ I don’t think you have long arms on there now oh you were planning on doing something that Greg suggested I think correct me on that what are you going to do are you going to stick with the short arms or do you have something other than short arms on your TJ?
Yeah currently I’ve got pretty much stock geometry under mine absolutely going to be going to long arms eventually with the double triangulated rear and then a three link in the front but in the interim on the way there Greg had talked about doing using the control arms off of like a JL or even a gladiator and basically making mid arms for TJ and I know I’m thinking I might want to just try that just just I just want to see what it’ll do with with the understanding that eventually I’ll be going to full long arms but just just kind of in on interim and because I like I just like I like doing I like tinkering with stuff like that like I like doing fab work and so that’s that’s kind of kind of what I’m looking at so but eventually yeah I’ll be a full long arm but that’s going to be after I do the TJ to LJ stretch and in stretching oh
yeah you definitely want to do that or you start messing with long arms and stuff yeah that makes sense so what did you think about Andrew’s JL build our LJ build out there at this this year’s Jeep talk show off-road event
oh yeah I like the way it looked I like the way I mean the way it way it looked like it handled and it seemed pretty planted and you know I’m uh you know I think he’s got the Teraflex long arm system on there he’s got the metal cloak that’s right medical I’m sorry
radius arm so yeah it’s not our upper control
okay so yeah he’s got the medical system on there and and and you guys know I’m a Genrite fanboy so I’m probably gonna do the Genrite system owner
well Tony certainly appreciates being a Genrite fanboy I can promise you so Matt has raised his hand here in the the zoom meeting Matt go ahead
so you know there’s a third kind of in between that we actually touched on all that it didn’t come up so they a V kit and there’s several others out there like for Chuck’s gladiator includes what they call geometry correction brackets but what they really are are lower front control arm mounts and there’s there’s there’s rear versions too from like metal cloak but they get you know your your mid arms that you would call it a JLJ T back down to where they would meet the frame a long arm setup and so you get some of the benefits from long arms without the negatives of long arms it’s kind of an in the middle option
mm-hmm yeah I actually went with a control arm drop on my XJ whenever I lifted it up to six and a half inches and those those short front arms were you know not not pointing down but more probably more down than up and dropping the putting that to drop in there made a made a nice difference keeping them a little more level of course I’m on long arms now so it’s not an issue but yeah so there there are things out there that you can put on your your vehicle to help correct the geometry of the the short control arms usually makes the the ride a little better because with the with the the control arms more of an angle when you hit a bump or anything on the road it’s more of a vertical thrust into the the body of the the Jeep whereas if you have a more level control arm it more has more of a float and less of a harsh ride and and beyond just being a comfortable ride it would have a tendency not to wear the parts out as quickly than those those hard jolts that you get
all right so is there anybody here that would like to chime in that there’s
last hardly at all. Um, and I’ve heard from a few other people that with like, when they got put on larger trucks, they would do that. But I mean, I’m talking 10,000 miles and they’re out.
And say it again, cause I think I think I talked over you whenever you said that who it was,
uh, BFG migraines.
Okay. And was it the KMS, KMS, uh, twos or KM threes or?
I want to say it was the KM twos. It’s been interesting. I don’t remember.
I know that the original KMS, I know the original KMS cupped really bad on my XJ, but I think that was the, uh, the shocks that I had on there. Not, not initially the tires. Uh, but, uh, boy, they were a very aggressive looking tire.
I think BFG changed something at their compounds because I used to get them and they would last forever and they performed very, very well. And I recently got two sets of their alter aims and where I used to get 80,000 miles out of a set, I’m getting like 50,000 miles out of a set.
And it’s not a big weight difference in vehicle. It’s not anything like that. My JK four door out there. I think I’ve got 35, 40,000 miles on those tires and I used to routinely get 80,000 plus.
Right.
Yeah. I like getting that kind of mileage out of a tire, especially for how God awful expensive they are.
All right. Well, let’s go over to, uh, let’s see who I want to go to. Let’s go to Keith. Keith, uh, what is the, the worst tire? Uh, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be off road, but what is your worst off road tire you have ever owned? You’re never going to go back. Uh, you, if you could do it legally, you’d set the company on fire.
I don’t think I’d set the company on fire. Um, let’s see. I had some Mickey Thompson’s I didn’t like. I don’t remember what model they were. And they were two’s I didn’t like. Um, now I’m not blaming the company. They were just not for what I was using them for.
All right.
So some people like BFG and Mickey Thompson and you know, more power to them. I’m sure those Mickey Thompson’s stiggy’s for, you know, just for off roading are great. But for what I do, I need something. Yeah. It’s my daily driver. I need something that can do some decent mileage on the road and get rid of the mud and unload real fast.
Yep. So I see John Lee has raised his hand and I kind of started laughing a little bit because I think I know this story, John Lee, uh, off-road tire problems. Uh, what, uh, well, what company have you had problems with?
Well, I mean, I think I have nothing bad to say about the tires out right on the Jeep. I’ve, my toyos did great. I’ve loved the middle so much about a second set. Um, they, uh, the first set did twice as many miles on a FedEx truck as they do it on the Jeep itself, but, um, no, the, the, the off-road tire had the worst. So this is, this might be a little controversial, at least on this, this particular show, but it was a Nexen. So I actually lost a, lost a lot. Now this was on a heavy duty, three quarter ton pickup that they were on there and it was, it was cupping. It was bad performance in the wet. It was just like all around had a lot of issues with it. When I originally thought it was just maybe like you said shocks or whatever. So when I got another truck, the price was hard to beat. I tried to go back to them with a 3500 and had very similar experience from a brand new brand new set. So I think Nexen is the ones, the other ones that I’ll have problems with with a hand cook, Dynapros.
Um, they were great on the heavy duty, but they, they didn’t do a very well on, uh, like a half ton truck. Both of those brands, the ones I had to completely stay away from.
All right. Uh, Jacob, how about you?
You’re my friend, you’re my new friend.