Cowboy and the Kilt – AEV Overland Springs
In this episode of Cowboy and the Kilt, Chuck and Greg dive into a discussion about AEV Overland Springs, with Chuck sharing why he doesn’t think they’re the right fit for his 2023 Jeep Gladiator. As always, their conversation takes unexpected turns, making for a fun and insightful episode. Subscribe now so you never miss another great chat with these Jeep enthusiasts!
In fact most of the days that Iiolike that For a little but
bumper up at your place. So I was going to do a 14-day trip through South Dakota.
I actually went with a buddy of mine who is an engineer for Ford and has one of their newer Broncos.
He said, “Hey, take me Jeepin.” And I said, “Well, you can’t go Jeepin because you don’t have class. All you have is a Bronco, but we can go wheeling.” So I ran up to you knowing that I wanted to put the new 8274 Winch on, the new bumper. And the first thing you said was, “Geez, Chuck, you got a Carolina squat.” And I was like, “What the F are you talking about, man? It’s just a flat rig.” And then we took a tape measure out and sure as shit, I was damned running on my bump stops. Now this is a Mojave, right? So it’s got a smooth as silk ride. It is sexy right out of the factory. But I have a
racquet, large…
What the hell is the damn thing called in the bed of my thing? The big drawer system. It’s fully loaded. I was carrying 24 gallons extra of fuel, 20 gallons of water, and enough food for 14 days for three people.
And I went wheeling up there. We actually cut it short because the Bronco couldn’t just… It couldn’t make it, but it was just too much for a newer driver to go 14 days off-roading, not hitting asphalt at all. And I rode the bump stops on this thing the entire time. So I chatted with you while we were there. You said, “AEV.” And I had a huge decision to make. Do I go with just the AEV lift springs or do I go with the AEV heavy-duty overlanding springs?
And I had to gamble.
And I bought the overlanding springs.
I did not buy the kit. I just bought the springs themselves and then bought some bump stop stuff and realized that I had really nice bump stops in the front. And then realized that I had the guy that I bought it from had the AEV puck lift in it. And it took us a couple days. We threw up on the lift and just the three of us Cowboys got it, put all new stuff in, and I took her for a spin. And I don’t know that the gamble paid off, Greg.
The ride is so different.
And it now has a California rake so bad. I mean, my ass end is probably inch and a half to two inches taller than the back end.
And I don’t know that I carry enough overlanding gear to justify the HD spring to be honest with you.
Do you still have the the pucks in there or did you remove them?
No, I removed all the pucks because I had to go to the Jeep dealership. It’s about two hours away and we ordered the rubber parts that were for the stock springs. Remember I called you and I was like, “Dude, I don’t even have…” Because they were all gone, right? Because they had put the puck lift in so they threw away the stock ones. We had to order them. They were like 12 bucks or something. And that’s why it took us two days to do it. And it’s a flipping monster.
I did a three inch lift. I’m row three sevens. The tires look tiny. And because I don’t think I have enough weight in the back,
like I’m a big dude, right? I’m 265 pounds. I sit on the tailgate and it’s like sitting on the tailgate of one of my one tons. Like the Jeep doesn’t move. They get on it and it’s just like “TOOH!” And you’re like, “Good night!” So the handling down the road, it feels like…
it feels like I got into a one ton truck compared to the Mojave, dude. Like I don’t know if I need to call up AEV and say, “Hey, send me just the rear springs, the three inch rear springs that are not HD. You know, they’re not overlanding and put those in.” I don’t know. I’m thinking about doing that and getting rid of the the overland thing. Because the listener that that reached out to me a couple times, he’s got…
I think he’s got a Gladiator? I don’t know. But he was like, “Hey, you know, have you put these things in and what do you think? It’s his daily driver and I would strongly recommend do not put overland springs on your daily driver unless you have…
they have the…
like the… not the tunnel cover, but like a camper shell style camping setup on the back of these things. Like I think maybe that would do it. But I still have my tent on. I carry not 20 something gallons. I only carry six gallons of fuel, eight gallons of water, because we go back and forth to the cabin all the time and we ship the water that way.
And my drawer system is completely full of tools. I’ve got a… my shower system in there. I always have extra food. I have my ice chest that’s usually full of ice and beer because we we drink out of it every day and I’ve got my kitchen set up in it. So I’m not fully loaded, you know, like I would be on a 14 day trip or like the trip that we’re gonna take up north. So I might wait to see how that trip handles, but it…
and maybe Greg, I don’t know, you could probably chime in. I mean it going from the stock Mojave suspension to an HD suspension might have been just a giant jump. You know what I mean?
Well yeah, that’s… it’s a giant jump and I mean I’m not familiar with their overland springs, but I know their normal springs are already set up for more of a load and you had a two inch lift and you went to a three. Did you change the front?
Yeah, I changed everything. It was a whole new springs, all new springs. I did some sway bar disconnect. I did the extended sway bar disconnect stuff. Kept the shocks, just did the shock mount, you know, so that…
Yeah, the extension brackets.
The extension brackets and that’s it. I mean I did… one of the things that I did also at the same time is I did the fender split, right? So I took that… there was about two inches of plastic underneath the plastic, you know, color match bumper. Right. So that made it look taller, but I can tell you getting… well of course I was squatted before, right? So I was less than the two inch lift before to a more than a three inch lift back on the back now. I don’t know how tall I am, you know, six something and for me to get on to the tailgate I do a big jump, right? So I don’t know. It’s not…
Now did you do the geometry correction brackets or the steering correction or any of that?
Not yet.
Or did you just do the springs?
I just did the springs. I did the sway bar disconnect. I did the steer smarts that extend it,
but I can honestly say that I dislike California rakes, you know, where the back ends way jacked up and you’re kind of steering down into the road. Like I like a very level rig and I know that’s… unless I have like airbags or something I know that’s not gonna happen because if you’re loaded with the trailer or if you’re running stock you’re either gonna be one or the other, right?
Yeah but with all that weight you think you would assume and I would assume that it would sit level,
right?
But it’s not. It’s not. It’s fucking huge. So what I’m hoping is when you and I change the back end of this thing and put that spare tire out from underneath the bed to behind the tailgate and you know beef up that with some armor and stuff I can use the springs because we’re gonna add some weight to it, you know, and maybe level it out that way. I mean there’s all these things that are in the back of my head like…
I would suggest reaching out to AEV, talk to Mike Reckling or one of the guys there and maybe swap those out for non-overland springs and just go with their normal ones because if it’s jacking it up too much and if it’s stiffen the ride that much that’s an issue. I would also highly recommend because you are a three-inch lift going with their geometry correction brackets in the front that will aggressively change the ride. Really? Oh really?
Dude I can totally tell like the steering. You know like I feel like I’m steering into the ground. You know what I mean? Like a guy can totally tell like because I do a lot of towing you know and if I’ve got like I’m always overloaded you know with my gooseneks and if I don’t have my airbag set up and I’m pulling it up in the air yeah someone’s gonna say well that’s you know that’s fine. You get a little softie in your front end right where you’re steering and your tires are steering up. This Jeep I feel like I’m steering down into the asphalt and it’s harder to turn because I’m turning you know this way. It’s a trip dude it’s a total trip.
Yeah well the geometry correction brackets fix a lot and then they typically sell a high-steer kit with anything that’s three inches or above which changes the relationship where the drag link sits and changes the relationship where the track bar sits in the front and that will should lighten up the steering.
So you think a part of it is just I’m not done yet?
I think you’re not done yet. But if those springs are too right but if those springs are too stiff for you then they’re too stiff for you right if they make a normal duty spring you know that might be your avenue because from the factory you know and you can look at any Jeep you can go to the dealership and they’re supposed to be raked right so the rear end is supposed to be higher especially on a truck but that gives a weird feeling to the driver if that’s not what you like. So maybe just swapping to their normal springs because their normal springs you know not the overland ones but their normal AEV springs are already set up for more of a load than normal right so instead of the 800 pound load they’re set up for the 1200 pound load because of all the aftermarket goodies and maybe the overland ones are just too much.
Yeah all this aftermarket shit is just just need help. Absolutely love it I mean I grew up we always just called it camping you know and I didn’t actually get like corrected till I was hanging out with Chris at EJS was it this last year?
Yeah there was just this last year I had the 74 CJ5 he had you know Edla and we’re sitting there having a couple beers and I know that he’s the editor of the overland magazine and he’s a big overland guy and you know he’s actually four-wheeled across every continent which is pretty bitchin and I was like oh you know get fucked it’s just called camping and he’s like no it’s not called camping camping is you go in somewhere and you set up a camp and you don’t leave overlanding is you’re constantly moving every day and I was like well we used to do that through the Sierras he goes that’s different than camping I was like oh whatever well it’s
just because they called it a new name a few years ago right? Right. 15 years ago nobody knew what overlanding was right now that’s that’s the new rage for all of you skinny jean bun man bun having people which is what’s happening next so people don’t know but trucks growing his hair out and he’s gonna have a man bun next year
and I’ve got a huge ass I do I do yeah I mean I
are you gonna start drinking white claw too?
Dude my wife ordered a freaking white claw Friday night we went to Omaha Nebraska for a stupid concert and you know I didn’t even know the people is called crowded house I’m not a big if it ain’t country I don’t know it so she’s a big crowded house fan right so we went and I’m drinking PBR you know tall boy PBR and she goes up and she goes I’d like a white claw and I’d look at her and I looked at the bartender and I was like I don’t fucking know this lady you’re not drinking a white claw next to me there yeah I I mean growing up I was a I was a babbitt backpacker right so when I got my license and got a Jeep and I just took all my backpack and shit threw it in the back seat and then that’s how we would go and we’d go explore all of the Sierras you know and you’d go wheeling and camping and and all of that crap and I didn’t know what the hell it overlanding thingy was and
no I mean really it’s it’s a term that’s popped up in the last few years and maybe some people used it back in the day but for the grand scheme of things it’s a term that’s popped up in the last decade or ten years and it’s kind of funny because even SEMA you know you go to the off-road Hall at SEMA which is it used to be the Upper South Hall now it’s the West Hall they even have an overland section that is just for overlanding because it’s it’s such a boom and explosion in the in the off-road market in the last ten years
they have so much frickin technology in them trailers and in the gizmo gadgets like when I when I got this and I bought a shower you know back in the early 2000s when I did a lot of heat and air conditioning stuff why we just made our own shower system right that ran you know a heat exchanger into the engine yeah we had it in the engine bay and your coolant from your engine would run through you know your pipes and then your fresh water would run inside that and then you just made a heat exchanger you’d go to any Creek you know you throw your hose into the creek turn your Jeep on wait for your Jeep to get you know up to temperature and you had a little 12 volt pump and you would just pump your creek water through your heat exchanger right and just make a shower well hell now I mean I bought one there it’s all techno buttons and lights and lets you know when you’re at the right temperature because sometimes you’d burn the shit out of yourself you know up in the woods and drinking too much or whatever and my wife just laughs at me because all the neat crap you can buy you know it’s like a hundred dollars and you have this shower like hell yes this is bitching man and I got plenty of room to haul it I love it I think it’s neater in hell but I used to well here I’m gonna take you can you see me Greg so you got you know this little CJ 5 right mom and dad used to take myself my brother my brother is bigger than me and those two up to the woods for a week in that a single ice chest for food and we absolutely loved it and then when I got of age my son my sons and I so this is about
well that was camping now you’re glamping
amen amen so my sons and I built this Jeep 20 years ago Nathan’s turning 21 here in a little bit and this is by what people would call a rock crawler there’s that so all handmade fenders we did what’s called a boat side right so I cut the tub gave myself a lot of clearance and then I got weeds and stuff back here but and then I dovetail the rear end right can you see that great yep and put a trunk back there and we used to rock crawl with that thing because it’s all armored plate you know I cut the tub up and through three three sixteenths plate in where you know the tub all the tub parts were I used to bounce off of rocks all the time and shit you can’t see it right and I would still go camping in that thing throw all the gear in the back ice chest in the back and we’d go all through the Rubicon and like Barrett Lake Trail I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that that’s a hell of a that’s a hell of a gnarly trail and you’re getting damage regardless of what you do or how good you are and yeah so
and because you did show and tell now I’ll do show and tell for fun just cuz I’m standing outside so so this 1975 Cherokee
one
Phen Staples
10
You know, and I had two kids, you know, in diapers. You know, I was still living back in California at the time. So I was getting taxed, you know, out of my ass on everything. They like taxed me because they took time to tax me, you know, and I think I bought those Springs for like a hundred bucks, you know? And I called a company down South that made all of the spring hangers and the axle perches and everything. And it was like another 150 to $200. They found out that like I was going into the military or whatever and they’re like, oh, here, you know, thank you. You know, blah, blah, blah. And they like sent it to me like almost for zero.
And you know, we had a little 110 welder.
I don’t even know if the damn axles are even like parallel to each other. You know, we just kind of did it in the garage. And that is a flexy little bastard. You know, after we fixed up, well, after we fixed the steering issues and we had, we had fixed the drive line angle and everything that little rock crawler is like, I’ve sent pictures to Tony and Josh where, you know, you’ve got one tire. I only run 33s on that because I can stuff one tire all the way up into the fender well. And the other tire is just dingle dangling down and it’s still on the ground, you know, at damn near six feet. You know, it’s just something retarded. You can’t drive it down the road at all. Like it’s 45 miles an hour max, you know, and you’re squirrely all over the damn road because it’s so soft, but it’s a neat ass rig. Like I love it.
Absolutely love it. We started trailer cleaning it when I did all that stuff. Like that was another thing that I didn’t, I was always in with stock Jeeps and shit, you know? And then when I started doing all this radical stuff, you know, my dad was, he almost disowned me, you know, when I bought my first 33 inch tire, you know, he was like, oh my God, I thought I taught you how to wheel better than that, you know? And when I started having to trailer, when I started having to trailer it, he was, it’s like the old Harley guys that, you know, that ride their shit to Sturgis versus the guys that trailer it. You know, my dad’s like the old guy that he’s like, I fucking drive my Jeep everywhere. You have to trailer it, you pussy. And I was like, dad, I’ll fucking kill myself. I can’t, I just think down the interstate.
You know, I went through the same thing. I started off with, you know, a basic Jeep on 29s and slowly worked my way up till I was at 37s and, you know, super long arm and super flexy, you know, I wanted to be a ramp champ and now
I’ve, Oh my God, yes.
Now I’ve reverted back and because I’ve learned that, you know, the driver skill way outweighs what the vehicle’s capable of. So.
I think that’s a natural gestation, right? I mean, I think that’s pretty common where the guy gets into it and then there’s like, dude, this is fucking cool. And then he starts doing all this ramp chance stuff, which I’ve never heard that before. That’s bitchin’. And then after a while, you know, he’s like, well, that’s stupid. I want to go back to just a pretty well-built Jeep that I don’t care if I’m, you know, clocking 100s or whatever it is on that stupid ramp thing. I just want to have a easy ride and make it fairly simple.
Yeah, and it’s, you know, like when I built that rock store, which was 2019,
you know, very simple, no lift, factory springs, factory shocks, and it flexes, right? I mean, it’ll flex three or four feet, but the same year, who was it, Jesse?
I forget his name. He’s a, you know, he’s a rock crawl champion, but he built a rock store and he competed at King of the Hammers in the Everyman Challenge, which is, you know, limited to 35-inch tires. And, you know, you can’t change the suspension too much and you can’t do certain things, but he brought a rock store on factory leaf springs with, you know, factory shocks and all this simple stuff. And he won Everyman Challenge against all these guys with their long arms and their craziness and their triple bypass this, you know, because sometimes it’s,
I don’t mind picking a tire when I’m off-road.
You know, I don’t have to always have all four tires touching the earth. That’s what lockers are for, right? Right. Yeah.
But yeah, so I’ve reverted back to the simple days. I don’t need a long arm. I won’t run a long arm on anything that I own.
I can get away with a mid arm.
You know, like a TJ or the older stuff had very short control arms. The JK and the JL have the perfect length. So I don’t need longer than that. Right. So I go a little simpler, but you know, it’s just, we learn, we learn over time. Like same thing. You go to Easter Jeep Safari and you look at all of these 150, $200,000 rigs, you know, gladiators and over limbs and these guys with their $20,000 suspension and all that. And then, you know, and they’re on 40s and 42s and 44s and giant tires. And then you watch a bone stock 1948 Willys drive around them.
And I just laugh.
I just laugh my ass off.
That’s what happened. Bill and I, Bill’s a listener. He’s a super cool guy, he’s a veteran. So like him and I, like, it’s like Forrest Gump and Jenny. Right? I mean, we get along extremely well. And he’s got like a 24 whatever the new two, there’s a single little two door Jeep. And I think he’s got like a puck lift on 35s or something. And that’s it, you know? And I think maybe he took like the back seat out so he can throw an ice chest in there or some lunch shit or whatever. And I had dad’s stock 74 CJ and him and I, I don’t know the name of the trail and I don’t really care, you know, but we had a damn blast.
And we come up behind these people that had like video cameras out and full width one tons and all this crazy shit. And you know, here am I in a damn clown car Jeep, just tearing up the trail, like didn’t skip a tire. Like everything was easy and fine, you know? And they were like, hey, you know, you guys could go around us. We’re like, oh, we’re good. And you just realize like we’re fucking up their shots because they’re making it all like extreme and hard. And here’s Bill and I like, doo doo doo doo doo.
We had a damn blast. I think like the cool factor of just going out there and doing it, like Bill’s an amazingly good driver. Like I’d go wheeling with Bill anywhere because he gets on the trail, he gets through it in a timely fashion. Yeah, we do have conversations from time to time, but you know, we’re just, we’re getting through the trail, right? And he does it totally fine. And I got to keep up with him with this thing and vice versa. Sometimes I would leave, I don’t even know where the hell I was going. And I was like, I’m just gonna follow the black mark, just go and there’s that cool factor where you don’t have to have all that shit. There’s nothing wrong with it. I mean, I think it’s me when you come up on these rigs and you’re like, God damn, that thing’s more than my damn house. But you don’t have to.
I own the old fat guy, you know, in a little bit. Yeah, my first really good experience with that was, and I was getting bigger and more involved and definitely more involved in the off-road industry. And I went wheeling. So the guys who mentored me when I first started off, are the Lunatic Fringe. And the Lunatic Fringe was a group within Chrysler that, you know, developed the Rubicon and developed, you know, a lot of the other cool stuff.
And we were in Moab and I wanna say it was like 2015 or 2016. And I was staying with them because I was sleeping on their couch. And, you know, I’ve got this, I was driving Frankenbrute, which is, you know, just everything thrown at a Jeep, you know, long wheelbase coilovers, blah, blah, blah. I had everything on it. And I went wheeling with them one day and we did a pretty hard trail. We actually went to Pritchett Canyon. And these guys, you know, they’re driving CJs and they’re driving YJs and, you know, a couple of them had JKs, but none of them were overly built. And Pritchett Canyon’s a pretty gnarly trail.
And we go there and the first thing in the morning, you know, everybody’s errant down, everybody’s getting ready to hit the trail.
And there’s always a quick driver’s meeting to make sure that everybody knows who’s the trail gunner and who’s, you know, in charge and blah, blah, blah. And these guys, they’re like, all right, you know, first person to squeak a tire buys lunch and first person to spin a tire does this.
And I’m like, what are you talking about? And they said, well, you know, they have a competition and their competition is to do harder and harder trails. And the person who makes it look effortless and never chirps a tire and never has to back up or never has to winch, the guy that just crawls over every obstacle at the end of the day, he gets free beer and free dinner and free food.
Oh, that’s my kind of story. Absolutely.
And I’m like, really? You know, cause I’m used to wheeling with all these influencers who they want to get a tire five feet in the air and they want to They want to make it look difficult. Right, they want to make it look difficult. And then I go out with all these guys who are in their seventies and driving this trail that I did the day before with influencers and everybody had problems and everybody struggled. And these guys, just like you said, they’re like, clown cars, they do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And they drive up all these obstacles. They never chirp a tire. You know, if a guy hits us a little sand patch and slides a little bit, everybody’s like,
(Laughs)
you’re buying me a car. Right.
And I think that was the point for me when my driving style changed and my driving style got more progressive and cleaner because now I’m hyper focused on making everything look simple. It’s a chess game.
It’s a chess game, right? Yeah, so like when I’m wheeling, I’m wheeling like maybe 15 to 30 feet down the trail. And just what I’m going over is what I’ve memorized in my brain, right? So you’re just going and you’re like, my dad always told me your driver’s side front tire is the one you pay attention to. Everything else will just follow. So you always just guide yourself on your driver’s side front tire. Some of the people are going to say, oh, absolutely not. The Jeeps now are so much bigger and you have to do this, that and the other. Even with the Gladiator, everything for me as a front driver’s tire, that’s how I do it.
And– Yeah, and honestly, after 10 minutes, you know how wide it is. So you know what the passenger tire’s going to hit.
Right. It’s just spatial recognition, right? So, and it was like when I was– Other
than you’re driving a land yacht that’s like 92 feet long. So your turning radius.
It’s a school bus, right? So like I grew up with these guys– You should turn a yellow. I hate you right now.
(Laughing)
But these guys all had beautiful, beautiful Willy’s Jeeps. The other short Fender fives, one guy had, Rick Russell, he had a CJ six, you know, and they were just gorgeous. They weren’t scratched. They were spotless, man. And you go out and they made fun of people that hit rocks or they made fun of people that you’re off camber and maybe your roll cage, you know, scratched a tree. They were like, oh, you don’t know what you’re doing. And it was like, that’s who taught me how to wheel. And it was like at the end of the Rubicon, your rig should be just dusty and that’s it. Like it should be gorgeous. And when like when I built the Rock Crawler, you know, I had rolled the Jeep. I was up in Northern California somewhere and fell off a rock and kind of like, it was like a little cliff rock or whatever.
Yeah, and you took it from something that should go down a trail and be dusty at the end to something that you can use rocks to pivot on.
Right, right. And they disowned me, Greg. They fucking disowned me. They were like, you destroyed a beautiful Jeep. Cause it was Emerald green, you know, had nice chrome bumper, chrome wheels. And I was one of the guys that would show up with this gorgeous stock-ish, you know, CJ-5 to now I can do whatever the hell I want. And there’s videos of me driving over a car, you know. And they were like, oh no, you did that because you forgot how to drive. And I was like, well, no, I did this cause I rolled the bitch off of a three foot, four foot cliff and destroyed the tub. And I didn’t have the money to rebuild it. So I just cut it apart, used old scrap steel and armor plated it, you know. Right.
But it was what it was,
You’re my friend, you’re my new friend.