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Jeep vs. Grenadier: Women’s Off-Road Adventures on Chic Chat | Jeep Talk Show

Welcome to a thrilling episode of Chic Chat on the Jeep Talk Show! 🚙💨 Join hosts Amanda, Wendy, and our special guest Anastasia as they dive into the world of off-roading, celebrating the perfect fusion of style, adventure, and rugged freedom. This episode is all about empowering women to embrace the thrill of the trails, whether you’re behind the wheel of a Jeep or an Ineos Grenadier! 🌟 What’s in this episode? Meet Anastasia, founder of the Women’s Ineos Grenadier Club, sharing her passion for getting more women off-road and building confidence on the trails. Learn about the joy of off-roading, from conquering tough obstacles to transforming newbies into trailblazers. Dive into the art of nonverbal spotting—essential hand signals and tips to guide drivers safely through challenging terrain. Hear inspiring stories of adventure, community, and the empowerment that comes with tackling the outdoors as a woman. 💪 Why watch?Chic Chat is your go-to source for off-roading tips, women’s empowerment, and the vibrant Jeep community. Whether you’re a seasoned wheeler or just starting out, this episode is packed with insights to fuel your adventurous spirit. From Moab to the East Coast, we’re breaking stereotypes and showing that women are a powerful force in the off-road world! 🔥 Key moments: Anastasia’s journey from dirt bikes to founding a women’s off-roading club. Tips for choosing the right Jeep (TJ, LJ, or JKU?) for your off-road adventures. The importance of trust and communication between drivers and spotters. How to stay safe and confident on tough trails with nonverbal spotting techniques. 📢 Join the community!Subscribe to the Jeep Talk Show for more episodes packed with off-roading tips, stories, and inspiration. Follow us on: 🌐 Website: jeeptalkshow.com/contact 📸 Instagram: @jeeptalkshow 🎥 YouTube: Jeep Talk Show 📘 Facebook: Jeep Talk Show 🎶 TikTok: Check us out for fun, quick tips! 🔔 Don’t miss out—hit that subscribe button, like, and share to join the Chic Chat crew! Let’s hit the trails together and show the world what women can do. 💥 Welcome to Jeep Talk Show, the ultimate podcast for Jeep enthusiasts! Join Tony, and, the crew as we dive into off-road adventures, Jeep Wrangler 392 updates, Jeep Gladiator camping, and the Jeep Cherokee relaunch. From $130K Jeep resale trends to Gladiator tent reviews, we cover Jeep modifications, off-road gear, and events like Easter Jeep Safari and Great Smoky Mountain Jeep Invasion. Get expert Jeep 4xe towing tips, lightweight truck camper insights, and off-road trail guides for Jeeps. Subscribe for weekly Jeep news, join our community at jeeptalkshow.com/discord, and hit the trail with us! Head to https://jeeptalkshow.com to explore our world of Jeep madness, subscribe, and let us make your day a little more rugged and a lot more fun. Ready to roll with us? Let’s hit the trails together! #Jeep Talk Show, #Jeep podcast, #off-road podcast, #Jeep community, #Jeep off-roading, #Jeep Wrangler, #Jeep Gladiator, #Jeep news, #Jeep modifications, #Jeep accessories, #off-road adventures, #Jeep events, #Jeep 4xe, #Wrangler 392, #Jeep camping, #Jeep trails, #Jeep Wrangler 392, #$130K Jeep resale, #Jeep infotainment bricking, #TuneOutdoor Gladiator tent, #RealTruck trail access 2025, #Jeep Gladiator camping, #lightweight truck camper, #$13K Jeep camper, #Jeep Cherokee relaunch 2025, #Great Smoky Mountain Jeep Invasion, #Easter Jeep Safari 2025, #Jeep Badge of Honor app, #women off-road Jeep podcast, #Chic Chat Jeep podcast, #Jeep off-road gear reviews, #best Jeep accessories 2025, #Jeep 4xe towing tips, #off-road trail guides for Jeeps

Hello, hello. I am Amanda and I’m gonna be one of your hosts of today’s special episode of Chick Chat. Team A, Wavy with a new special member. I know it’s gonna be great.(…) Great. And Chick Chat is the place where we celebrate the perfect fusion of style and adventure and Jeeps have long been synonymous with ruggedness, freedom, and the spirit of adventure. Who says that women can’t embrace all of that and more? I would say we can. This is Wendy. You guys know me from the Jeep Talk Show.

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I’m just so excited to do this. We’re continuing our spotting(…) episodes, but you know, I want to introduce Anastasia and it’s funny, Amanda. I think I need my name changed with an A because then we could be the triple A, right? I’m just the A team, but we’d be the triple A team anyway. So I could put an A in front of my name. Oh, Wendy. There you go. Anyway, Anastasia, introduce yourself and let our listeners and viewers know who you are and a little bit about yourself.

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Absolutely. I’m Anastasia and I actually own a Grenadier, but I love Jeeps. So just to put that out there right now, first and foremost, we do own a Jeep. It’s my husband’s. I started and founded the Women’s Ineos Grenadier Club and it’s a little passion project of mine to just get more women off-road. That’s essentially all it is. It’s building confidence and helping them educate themselves little by little with practice and resources and the ability to congregate over something that just makes you feel like you can do anything. You can be adventurous. You can still be an awesome mom. You can take your kids out to remote places and have a lot of fun.(…) It’s important to me to also say that this was a very weird, organic(…) start.(…) It was on social media before COVID and when COVID hit, I was off of it for like four or five years.

(…)

I ended up getting a Grenadier and I said, this is just too much fun to not share, especially for women. I grew up riding dirt bikes and four-wheelers and we are a huge adventure-jugging family. When I got the Grenadier, we started off-roading it quite a bit and I loved the community we started on the East Coast, but I was contacted by a guy on the West Coast, actually Utah. His name is Mike Reed and he said, “Hey, you want to come out to Moab?”(…) I said, “Sure, why not?” I became the ambassador for the Women’s Expedition Clinic out there for the Grenadier Gathering. That’s how it kind of came about. That’s where I’m coming from.(…) I think it’s amazing that you kind of started and said, “Hey, here’s a format for women.” I think that’s one thing that I love to do with the newbie sections that I do, is that we get to see(…) people transform and learn. I think this is sort of a man’s world. We all know that, but I’m sorry, it has changed. It’s probably half and half, women and men now. Wouldn’t you agree, Amanda? I think so. Oh, I love it. Yes, 100%. I’ve met some amazing women through this and I get to see women new into the off-road community all the time and see the joy it brings them and it’s just the best.

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Yeah, it’s always my favorite when I get to see somebody that maybe is brand new and not sure and then we kind of go through some things and we get them through the process and then at the end they’re like, “I had no idea my vehicle could do this.” I’m like, “It’s not the vehicle, sweetheart. It’s you.(…) You can do this.” Yeah, exactly.(…) A lot of women, I’m kind of like that super crazy balls to the wall kind of girl where I’ll try anything. My kids always make me do the first crazy thing first. That cliff jump, “Mama’s going first.” That crazy ride, “Mama’s going first.”(…) That’s part of my way of showing my kids you can do anything. Calculated risk, “Don’t be an idiot. Cocky people die.”(…) But what I will say is that having a lot of fun with women and what you were saying, Wendy, seeing them go from, “I don’t know about this. I’m really unsure. I feel very insecure about this. I’m intimidated by it,” to,(…) “Holy crap. I just went up this crazy … My sister, she has a grenadier too. She went up baby’s lions back and you are completely to the sky and completely to the ground.”(…) Afterwards, she was just like, “I can’t believe I did that.” Once you start getting all this under your belt, it’s like, “I can’t believe I did that. No, no, no. I’m going to do that and I’m going to go for the next thing and it’s going to be awesome.”(…) Women need security. They need to know that they can control the situation. You can’t. You can’t always control these situations. You become more comfortable with being uncomfortable in that way. Yeah. But it also, with time, you get that experience. I think that’s the hardest part, is that sometimes as women, we want to master it yesterday.(…) We don’t want to go through years of waiting. I mean, that’s not who we are as women because we have a big S on our chest. We do lots of things. We’re moms. We work. We do all kinds of things. I think for women, it’s also a chance to slow it down a little bit, take some direction, wait for that timing to learn, which is why we love to do our segments that we do because I love taking that time to explain how something might work. That might give someone that confidence when they’re showing up to do a run saying, “Hey, I heard it’s going to take a little time. I heard it’s okay if I don’t do it right. I heard it’s okay to try. I heard it’s okay to ask.” I think that permission is huge in our world. We’re excited to have you on. For those of you listening, Anastasia is going to be a sort of fill-in whenever any of us can’t make it. Maybe she’ll become a regular in all of our episodes. So Team B, Team A, check it out. You guys keep watching and looking for us because Anastasia’s coming and she’s going to have some really cool stuff to inject.(…) Well, it’s been nuts. I was telling Amanda earlier, I’ve been looking at a little side piece. I call her my baby girl side piece I need to find.(…) Some of my friends, Dirt Nerds, they run a podcast and they have the Dirt Nerds shop. It’s really fantastic on the East Coast here.(…) They all big jeepers. They do 24 hours of Appalachia, all sorts of fun stuff.

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It’s kind of funny. I did a podcast with them too. I was telling Amanda about it, but they were like, “All right, you ready?” I was like, “I’m ready.” I was like, “Just give me a couple more months to get the cha-ching.” So they’re sending me posts of Facebook Marketplace. I don’t know if I would like a TJ.(…) They’re like, “Maybe you should get an LJ.” Then my husband’s like, “You really should get a JL.” I’m just like, “All these acronyms and things like that.” I said, “Okay, somebody needs to break all of them down for me.” My husband’s like, “It’s just an alphabet.” Then I was like, “Well, if it’s just an alphabet, how come it keeps going like this?” He was like, “Well, I said, “All right, look, we’re going to get this organized because the woman and me, I’m a school teacher as well. I got to have a list. I got to know all the different things that go on with each car, and then I can make an educated decision.” But getting a Jeep is heavy on my priority list. Well, and I’m going to sway you to look at a four-door and do the JKU because to me, you have family, you might have people coming in. That’s five seats easily, lots of extra space.(…) And it’s got a perfect wheelbase to do almost every single obstacle in this entire country. Wendy and I talk about the wheelbase all the time in our episodes. When you were saying all those, I was like, “Okay, if you’re going to do the two-door, let’s do the LJ.” But a four-door wheelbase.(…) I thought I was looking at the LJ because I did want a two-door just to, like I said, it was going to be purely for wheeling and doing the things. In my Grenadier, I’ve been sitting on a lift for like a year, and I just don’t have the clearance to do the same things that my husband can do. I mean, he’s got 35s right now. He’s getting 37s, and he just has so much more flexion, of course, as well. And his ability to articulate, I don’t have that same ability. So he’s going on trails that I’m like, “I want to go on with you,” but I can’t because I will literally damage my car. It doesn’t matter what line I take. It’s just I don’t have the clearance.

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Yep. Well, happy hunting.

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Thank you.(…) I love shopping for jeeps. So if you ever want a women’s perspective,(…) you just call on me and Wendy and we’ll help you out.

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I would love that. I would really appreciate the help, especially being a newbie in all of it. We’re part of this group called the Nova Jeepers here in Northern Virginia. And they are, when I first met this community, and this is about a year ago, they fully accepted me and my Grenadier. And they were just like, “Wow, we just don’t want your car to get hurt. We don’t want you to get hurt. I want you to see all the beautiful things.” And I said, “Y’all, you’re my kind of people. Let’s go.” So we’ve been out with them quite a bit and formed some great friendships, and there’s like all the different levels in that group. And jeepers are good people, man. I haven’t come across one jerk so far. It’s been great.(…) Well, I’m sure at some point you might, because it happens, but for the most part, we’re great people.(…) I’m just going to say.

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You’ll find those anywhere. Just ignore them. That’s for sure.

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Yeah. I mean, if you’re already in with a good group, then you don’t need to be searching out for anybody else. I mean, it’s going to be awesome, and you’ll read with them and have fun. You’ll learn a lot, and you’ll learn your vehicle too. So whatever vehicle you pick, you may decide down the road you need to change that.(…) There’s nothing wrong with that.(…) Or I should say not change, but upgrade, because that’s exactly what’s going to happen.(…) Welcome to the jeep world. Now, guess what you’re going to do? But if you can find a TJ or an LJ already set up and lift it and everything, it’s going to make your life a little bit easier. But sometimes the fun is, I mean, anything off the showroom floor stock is also very, very capable. Can do probably 80% of the trails in the country stock, and I’m not exaggerating. So all of us that go and put 35, 37, we do lifts. You know, you change the axles, you do everything else. So the key is going to be what types of trails you want to do, what kind of difficulty are they, and that would determine what you’d need to be looking for. Because if you’re going to do some medium to easy stuff, and your family’s coming with you, and that’s all you’re going to do, you know, anything off the showroom floor, anything basically stock, a basic lift is going to be fine. If you’re going to start getting into, you know, wheeling the big huge diamond, black diamonds, getting serious rock crawling. Now you’re talking, okay, I got to go to 37s, maybe 40s. Now you’re talking money changing stuff, you’re gearing. That’s a lot of money going into it. So I think the first thing I would say to you is see what is it that you guys want to do. And if you’re already doing some difficult trails, and you’re having to bypass and he’s going through them, and you want to join him, then you may be looking at something different. But a four door Rubicon, it’s already got everything you need. And you can go to 37s without having to change gears or anything else pretty easily and we wheel and do everything that’s out there. So, you know, I don’t even want to think about what it takes to re gear the car. I’ve heard some crazy horror stories about re gearing and I’ll just leave that to the experts. There’s no way my husband actually put differentials in to his and it, you know, it took a couple days, but he did it himself. And at least I have someone who, you know, he’s a he builds choppers and stuff like that. So he knows how to weld, he knows basic engine and electrical. That’s great. But there are certain things that we got to give it to the shop for and that’s okay. That’s no problem. That’s right. The grain of your does not have the same capabilities as the Jeep, but it does have quite a bit. It’s very different from a Jeep in that it’s a workhorse. I mean, it can haul up to like 7,000 pounds. And it has solid axles front and back, just like a Jeep, they’re Corraro, they’re Italian axles. It’s a B58 turbo engine. It has beautiful full ladder frame.(…) So it’s very capable. The car is extremely capable. It’s just like I said, clearance and you can take off the sway bars as well, but it doesn’t give you that much more flexibility. It’s really,(…) I would have to try it. I haven’t let my husband do it just yet.(…) I’ve been very conservative. Like the lift I have, I’ve been sitting on it for a year, haven’t done it. Too many people have ruined their drive shafts and the boot tears and they start leaking and they’re stuck. So I’ve been waiting to watch what everybody else is doing, just like the patient mother that I am. And we’ll see how it goes. I really love over landing as well, not just off-roading. I love the hybrid of it. So right now, my Grenadier is set up to off-road and overland. So I love it. And it sounds like it would probably make a great vehicle for that.(…) And then you kind of have the best of both worlds where you could do the overland and maybe a reliable daily driver. And then you get the centerpiece for the rock rally. Exactly.(…) I’m a bad influence. I’m just, this is fun. This is us just doing what we got to do to have a good time.(…) Exactly. Boy, you’re not kidding either. I mean, that is the fun part of it. So, all right. Well, I think we should sort of get started on our segment here. What do you think, Amanda? Anything else you want to say before we get going? No, I’m ready to get started and I’m ready to have Anna stage’s input on this. I think it’ll be great. Cool. Sounds good. All right. So let me go ahead and get started. Let me make sure I’ve got everything set up.

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How did I lose you guys? Okay. So just for the listeners, we’ve kind of started team A here, Amanda and I.(…) We started a series about using a spotter. So the last episode that we did, we talked about spotting and doing verbal. So you’re going to hear things like driver, passenger and all that. And we did talk about what does it actually mean? And I kind of went through it. So go back to chick chat episodes, check it out, make sure you’re listening to it, but we’re going to now move into what I call nonverbal. And nonverbal is, I love nonverbal because it tends to be a bit of a problem sometimes when it’s verbal and someone says driver that doesn’t know what they’re talking about, not sure. And then they’re looking out the window or they’re doing something else. So I do see that a lot in spotting where they might start with me and then partway through, they’re just, they’re just disengaged. So when I spot, I love to do nonverbal. Now, if I’m going to use nonverbal, I need to have a quick conversation with that driver to explain what it is that I’m going to do. And Amanda, we talked about this last time where having a quick conversation with that driver quietly and just say, this is how I’m going to do it. This is what they mean. And you’ve had that experience where you’ve actually talked with somebody and said, here’s what I’m going to do. And I think someone said, done that with you as well, haven’t they? Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that’s the, you know, that’s probably going to be our other episode about, you know, being a good spotter, but I think that’s part of the key is communication. Yeah. You know, certainly knowing the people that you’re spotting and the group that, you know, that’s interesting you with their vehicle and their safety, quite frankly, you know, having a good conversation with them on what to expect. Are you going to be given them verbal commands or are you going to be given them, you know, nonverbal commands? And what do some of those mean?(…) And answer questions they may have. Yeah. And especially when you’re a new driver too, you don’t really know what you don’t know. So I think as mentors and being on that trail and helping somebody through, it’s our job to let that newbie know ahead of time. It gives them a better experience too. So one thing I want to say too, is make sure that when you’re giving these nonverbals that you don’t have black gloves on. I learned this the hard way. I had black gloves, black jacket, the driver couldn’t see my hand signals. They’re like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. So once I remove my gloves, you can do, you know, colored gloves, blue, orange, green, something so they can actually see your hands. It’s super important that they can see at all times. So, all right. So let’s get into some nonverbal hand signals.(…) What you’re going to see too, is you’re going to see using your finger and you’re going to point left. Hopefully that’s left in the camera, which means the driver has to turn right. So pointing, it might be a thumb, it might be your finger. Make sure that that driver sees what you’re doing. If you’re wearing all black and you are have black gloves, you may have to move your hand away from your body so that they can see you. Pointing right would be the same thing. Remember you’re standing in front of that driver and asking them to go a certain way. So you’re telling them to go left. So it kind of feels funny as a spotter when you use these hand signals of what does it mean? Now, when I do come forward, I’m going to take both of my hands and my palms are facing me and I’m going to say come forward. Now this might be, some people might do a little bit. They might do just a couple of things, whatever one hand versus the other, but that’s generally what nonverbal means is to come forward, go back. I’m going to actually have that palms facing toward the driver with the pushing motion that indicates to go back or reverse.(…) Now, what does all that mean? Right? Because sometimes pointing left means how much more do I need? How much more do I go right? Coming forward. So what I tend to do is I will use this command, meaning you’re going to keep doing exactly what I’ve just said for you to do until I tell you something different. And I think that’s part of the key and I’ll explain that in a minute. So now when you’re going to climb up or down a rock, I’m going to point to that tire and use the open palm. Like I’m going to raise it up as you coming up. I’m going to point to that. Maybe it’s the passenger tire and then I’m going to use my hands to say I’m just going to go up. So I might be still doing this to come forward, but I’m pointing to that tire and then I’m motioning it to go up. Same thing. If you’re going to come down, I’m going to maybe stop and say, hey, hold on a minute. And I’m going to point and say you need to come down slowly. So I will do that as far as those are concerned. And that’s important for the driver to pay attention. What does that mean? Now we all know what this means. Stop.(…) And that means do not move. Closed fists signifies the driver must not move. And we talked about this on our other episodes. It doesn’t mean turn the wheel. It doesn’t mean let your foot off the brake and set the parking brake. It means do not move. And a lot of times when we are rock crawling, if you take your foot off that brake to set it to the parking brake or you want to adjust something, you might move just enough to take your tires off that line. And Amanda, we talked about that, you know, where we said, hey, if you come off the line, now we’re backing you up and getting you back on the line again. So have you seen that happen where people come off the line, Amanda? Oh, all the time.(…) Yeah. So and you know, we talked about it in our other episodes. It may people think, and especially if they’re new, that that little bit of movement, you know, from setting the parking brake or taking their foot off the brake is no big deal.(…) Well, now we’re doing a 27 point turn in a narrow trail to get you back on the line. Right. And it’s a big situation. Or sometimes, depending on how difficult the obstacle is or how tight the trail is, you know, if you’re off the line, that’s it. You’re winching like you’re off the line. Yeah. There’s no, you know, there’s no other remorse.

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Well,(…) sometimes like we talked about in picking the line, which is one of our other episodes, Anastasia, where you can back yourself up. So picking a line is about putting those tires where you want them. And just for listeners that maybe missed that episode, it’s all about the rear tires. And the driver tends to focus on the front tires only. So this is a super cool way to keep everything calm. I love nonverbal. It’s very quiet. One of my favorite things to do is to roll up to a big obstacle. We get out the drivers who are with me usually know how I’m going to operate. We get them through and there’s not a single screaming. We don’t yell. There’s no fighting.

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And it’s like people’s mouths are like, what just happened? Like, I don’t know what they did. How is she getting them up there? It doesn’t make any sense. So nonverbal is very, very calm. And I think it works well for these newbie drivers too. If you’re new to off-roading and you’re just not quite sure exactly what to do, that spotters extra set of eyes is helping you and guiding you through that obstacle. So you do need to pay attention to them and you really need to just focus. So again, we’re going to talk about this.(…) Wendy, when you talk about paying attention, I think that’s something that I learned on early because I really, sometimes I want to spotter. Sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I know I can do it myself and I’m going to pick my own line. I’m going to decide what I’m going to do. But when you’re in that mode and then you get to the next obstacle and you’re like, I think I need a spotter, you kind of have to switch into being the learner where you say, okay, I need to pay attention to my spotter. So it’s a really big mutual relationship and it’s definitely based on trust and being on the same page. There have been circumstances where I’ve had some spotters. They actually, when they’re going to the side, they’re going like this rather than actually using a finger in the direction that I’m going in. And if they stop, they do this rather than this. And so I’ve had situations where we’re not on the same page with, hey, this means that and that means this. And okay, we agree that those hand signals mean the same things. Now we can successfully spot. And by the way, as the driver, it’s my responsibility to actually look at you and make sure I’m not looking out the window to do what I want to do because I’m either not respecting your position that I decided to place you in rather than going ahead and doing it myself.(…) Yeah. Yeah, it happens a lot when we’re out wheeling and I can be with very experienced drivers and everybody wants to try to do an obstacle by themselves. I have no problem with you trying it. I’ll get you unstuck if you get stuck. I don’t have a problem with that. I do love when someone says, can I use you? You do need to use me all the way through because I know the line. I know what I’m doing, but what happens with new drivers is that I may say, Hey, we need to come a little bit forward. They’re not sure what that means, or they might overcorrect or oversteer. And that is where I think new people or they’ll do something and then go back to straight because we’re used to driving with our hands, right? 10 and two all the time when we drive on the road. So when I say, Hey, let’s move a little bit, they’re like, well, I’ll go back to straight. And part of that is experience. Part of that is just having or lack of experience because you’re learning is just giving that confidence of the spotter. And again, you haven’t heard, but Anastasia, I do talk about not all spotters are treated the same or are equal. We have really, really good spotters. You have a lot of average spotters and you have some, Oh, I don’t think I’m going to use you spotters. And there’s nothing wrong with that. So somebody might be learning and somebody might be whatever. And then there’s some old timers who only spot a certain way. I’m not going to change that. And I don’t care. So when you use me or use a spotter, please commit to the spotter. You’re going to learn things. Either you love what the spotter did, or you’re not going to use them again. When we first got back into jeeping, my husband had been jeeping for years prior to us meeting.(…) We went out with a group that we were not familiar with. This guy had not spotted a four door before, which we learned later.(…) And so we trusted him. We didn’t know, man, my husband has tons of experience. I was a newbie is really, really newbie. And so this guy tried three times to get us up this obstacle. And finally, my husband said, I’m sorry, I’m going to back it up and take the line I want to do. He took the line we got up and no problem. And it was just like, okay, we’re never going to go out with that guy again, because or not use him again. And what that guy failed to do is he didn’t say, Hey, I’m not familiar with the four door. Is there anybody here that could help me? He treated us like a two door and a two door travels differently than a four door. So the wheelbase was different. And he got a stuck and stuck. And my husband was like, whatever. So again, there’s nothing wrong with learning things because you are going to pick up stuff. So please just use the spotter. So all right. And this learning. Well, and the other day, I was out and I had a spotter say to me, you know, I wanted to do a really I would, I would say it’s probably would have been pretty difficult for my grenadier to get down. However, I thought it was hopefully doable, maybe a little rock stack would have worked. But he said, you know what, I’m not comfortable spotting you because I don’t know how the grenadier is going to react. I know how a jeep is going to go and I know where they’re going to fall if they, you know, slide down the larger side on the rock, because there is quite a big drop. And I said, Hey, totally get it. Thank you so much. I’m good with that. I will take the bypass.(…) So, you know, you just have to have a little bit of humility. And I didn’t want to sit there and push the limit on something and then ruin everybody’s day because I ruined part of my car or because I was just like deciding to do whatever I wanted to do. I was in Piskall Forest and I was doing the Artemis rally. It was so much fun. But I essentially there was a detour that day and I used Onyx Offroad and it was trying to take me off the mountain and I followed it and it was a great learning experience. I was driving into a funnel because the detour, it said four by four on the map, but it wasn’t. It was an ATV and motorcycle trail. And I was clearly ratchet strapping trees out of the way. Okay. I was airing down so far to like, I have like 34s and I was down to like 13 PSI because I had a canoe that was 16 feet long and two feet high that I had to get under all of these areas with. And I just got to a certain point and I was just like, I can’t go any further. And if I back out, I’m just going to do this to my whole car.(…) Just the whole thing. You know what I mean? And it was, I had a spotter and my spotter was a newbie and I wasn’t, you know, I always call myself a newbie no matter what, but she was like super fresh, but she’s a rock climber and she’s incredible, super intelligent. But you know, my car is very wide and very boxy and there was a humongous, like six foot tall, just the underside of all of the root systems of a tree that we had to drive past. And she couldn’t see that I would have really kind of sheared off the right side, the passenger side. And I was so focused on looking down on the left side because there’s a root system that if I went up too high, it tilt me into it, you know? So I was just, I was focused, she was focused. And then I have Gorilla tape now on my passenger side view mirror. And it’ll stay like that because it was $800 just to replace that thing. And I was like, Oh hell no, I will just Gorilla tape, electrical parts are fine. And maybe I’ll get a manual mirror.(…) Exactly.(…) Oh my gosh. I love that story. All right. Well, let me continue and share what my absolute favorite way to spot is. So I spot non-verbally,

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but I want the driver to mirror what I’m doing. So let me see if I can explain this. I learned this technique from Don Alexander when we were doing trails four one, one, basically I’m in spotter. I’m going to hold the steering wheel up right in front like you do. So you’re going to mirror exactly what I do. Now what’s nice about this is about two, two o’clock, 10 o’clock. It’s pretty simple. When I move my hands as if turning the steering wheel, that’s all I want you to do. So if I need a huge amount, I’m going to turn it a little bit more. If I need a little bit more and you don’t come further, I’m going to ask you to come a little bit more, maybe a little bit more. What that’s doing is cause I’m seeing everything. I know exactly what I need you to do. So what’s really cool about this is that when the driver has to pay attention now, so I don’t have people not paying attention. And it is weird. It’s weird for the spotter at first, because I’m going to be standing here. I want you to go this way, but you’re, you’re mirroring me. So you have at the opposite, you’re going to do the same exact thing, move exactly the way, but I have to explain that to the driver so they understand that. Now, I do at this point, if I’ve moved you to here, I need you to stay in that position because I’m then going to take my hands and say, come forward. I might point down to the rock that you’re not going to climb up. But what happens is you got to stay in that position. And that’s where the brain gets involved when you’re newer. And you’re like, well, wait, she said, do there. Do I go back to that center? Because this is what I’m comfortable with. No, you stay exactly where I put you, regardless of what your brain is trying to tell you, because Amanda and I’ve talked about this. Sometimes our brain goes, why are you pushing me there when I know I have to go the opposite way? But remember, we’re spotting you through for the rears to get through that obstacle with no issues. So that’s where this comes into play. So that’s what I love to do is very, very tiny. And we talked about this, too. When you are being spotted, it’s little tiny movements, period, whatever version you’re getting, verbal, nonverbal, or my way with the steering wheel, everything is done in very, very minor things. When the spotter needs more, they will ask you for more. OK, try to keep that in mind. But it is fun to do that. Amanda, have you ever had anybody spot you using the steering wheel and mirror method?(…) No, similar,(…) like a gauge, right, to tell me how to turn. But no, I like this because it’s really telling you exactly where how to turn your steering wheel. And I think that would be excellent for somebody new,

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but starting and maybe it’s their first couple of trail rides, that’s really giving them, you know,(…) there’s no question on how far to turn or whatever. So I like it. When you do use verbal and nonverbal at the same time for beginners, verbal and nonverbal, or do you just choose one or the other?(…) Well, then the verbal I do is at the(…) window quietly explaining to them what I’m going to do. I only spot using the steering wheel and nonverbal.(…) Period.(…) I don’t have ever know now. The only time I will become verbal

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is if somebody’s in the way.(…) Let’s say that I’m moving somebody through and I notice that there’s, you know, people love to watch and they will come into the picture. Next thing they know, I want to get pictures. They want a video and I’m like, whoa, OK. And I might. So if the driver, for some reason, doesn’t see me stop and stop means stop, I may reduce, move my hands out of it. You don’t stop.(…) I mean, you don’t do anything. Once I’ve said stop, you stay where you’re at until I move you again. It’s like your steering wheel. If I move you here,(…) I’m going to still bring you forward. I’m going to do everything I need to do. But you keep that steering wheel in that exact spot. And that’s the hardest thing for people.(…) If I see there’s a problem, if I have asked you to move or I’ve asked you to do something and you’re not paying attention, I may yell stop for a reason. Usually for me, it’s going to be a safety thing. Somebody’s in the way. I see something that happened. Maybe there was a loose log that we didn’t anticipate and somehow the wheels tracked. And I’m going to stop you before it gets caught up underneath.(…) Then it’s the only time I ever going to use herbal, but I do not. Nope. Nope. Do not use it. So it’s it’s different. It takes people some time to get used to it. How much did she mean? It’s like just mirror anything that I’m doing. Nothing more. That’s it. And then this just means exactly what I’m talking about. I’ll point to those tires, go up and down. I’ll ask you to maybe hold off for a minute. Stop if I need you to. Sometimes I’ve got to double check to make sure that the rears are tracked. But for the most part, everything is done with no communication other than what I’m doing. So it is really a great way to spot. It takes some skill set on the spotters level. You have to understand your different vehicles. Like you talked about Anastasia with your vehicle, more like a truck. I have wheeled and spotted people through and train. We’re doing training. We would teach all kinds of vehicles. So whether it was like a Subaru or it was a Ford truck or something with a camper on it, regular Jeeps, all different sizes. You have to be able to as a spotter understand that a two door tracks different than a four door than a gladiator. A truck’s going to handle things differently, especially if they don’t have the suspension and the articulation. You’ve got to pick your line that works for that vehicle. It is not one spot fits everybody. It doesn’t. So that’s where getting out, getting out and watching the spotter ahead of time, getting out and seeing what they’re doing, listening. Are they using verbal commands? Is the driver understanding the verbal? Are they using nonverbal? Are they doing what I do? A lot of people in this industry will use verbal and then they’ll use nonverbal and nonverbal is just your hand movements move this way, move that way, whatever they’re doing. I take it to the next level and I’ll tell you what it is seamless.(…) It is so smooth. And when you wheel with me, you’re like, you don’t have any question. You know exactly what I’m asking you to do. Now, let me talk a little bit about the visibility of the spotter. So you and the driver’s seat, if you cannot see your spotter, you need to stop and say, I can’t see you. And what I mean by that is when we go up a hill, the spotter is going to be above and maybe they need to bend down so you can see their hand movements. Right.(…) Maybe when you’re coming down a hill, you have to bend a little bit to be able to for that driver to see because that articulation and what’s happening with the vehicle, the roof line made obscure, right? The spotters. Your job as a spotter is to make sure that you can see that. Now, why do I love nonverbal? I can be a distance away from you. I can be super close. It doesn’t matter when I’m using verbal commands. You tend to have to be within earshot of that driver. To me, that also puts you the spotter at a position of maybe you could get hurt. What I mean by that is if you’re a new driver and you don’t quite understand how your brakes work and how your gas and, you know, sometimes when you are crawling, it’s very slow and you add your foot to the gas, you could over give yourself some gas. Right. It happens. We’ve all seen it done.(…) So learning that pedal, we call it, you know, how much pressure do you put on the pedal, keeping that on there? And we’re going to talk about it later. Episode of two foot driving, which we call it left foot driving. It’s also the poor man’s locker.(…) Amanda and I are going to really dive into that because it’s really fun to do. And boy, talk about messing up your brain. I don’t know what that means. It’s kind of funny, but that’s a butter. Your smother needs to be visible.(…) And I think what happens is spotters get used to, I need to go here. I’m going to climb on this rock, but you forget the driver can’t see you. So then the driver does is embarrassed. Hey, I don’t want to say I don’t see them. I see their feet, but I don’t see their hands and what they’re doing. And then they start to drive and then you hear this. What’s happening? I didn’t tell you to move. So when I do nonverbal, you come forward as long as I’m moving you forward. You stop if I stop you, you turn whatever I need you to do. Everything is slow motion. And I make sure that you can see me. And we have a ton of rocks out here in Southern California, especially in the desert area. Those rocks don’t move by the way, which is cool kind of wheeling because you can wheel the same line every time.(…) In Big Bear, when we’re wheeling, those rocks can move. And it’s like, it’s a new line today, folks. What are we doing today? Because somebody’s kicked the rock out or moved it. So you have to make sure when you’re on those inclines or declines that you are being visible to do that. So again, as a newbie driver, get out, look and see where’s that spotter jumping to or moving to, right? Because the spotters, we’re essentially looking at your Jeep and we’re walking backwards the whole time. Well, you better have good shoes and you better always look. So when I spot and I’m like this, I’ll say stop. I look and see, I got to move. So I will make that driver stop and I will back myself up or down. And then I’ll make sure that I’m in a position that they can see me before I move them. So I have had times where a driver’s like, Oh, did she say to go or not? And I’m moving. Oh my gosh. When you hear that Jeep move, you’re like, stop.(…) Because I said, hey, yeah. And I’ll walk back to that driver very quietly. I don’t want to embarrass anybody and say, I just told you to stop. I need to move around a little bit. So please do not move forward. Because if my back is turned to that Jeep, I have no idea what’s happening. Did they hit the gas too hard? Are they just sending it? Are they decided they don’t need me anymore? And I need, and I’m, what I’m going to be collateral damage. No. So make sure as the spotter that you are in complete control and drivers, if you’re using a spotter, do not move forward until you’re asked to, because it’s super important. I mean, I need to go to my husband. Like I really need him to watch you say what you just said, because I mean, sometimes he will get so low because he’s looking underneath, of course, to make sure that I’m in the back. But at the same time, I’m like, babe, I can’t see you. I have no idea where you are. I don’t want to kill you. I kind of like really love you. And I really

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so could you please like back off, you know, and that’s, that’s really important. It’s so is, it’s wow.(…) You do not want to accidentally hit a spotter. That’s a bad day. No, that is a bad day. Yeah. And lots of times we’re wheeling in such remote areas that there isn’t access to what we would consider, you know, first responders. We had a situation. I was not on this run where very experienced wheelers were out.(…) There’s a gentleman who was there in a two wheel. He hit the gas instead of the brake. He came down the hill. Everybody was out of the way. However, the jeep actually bounced on the rocks because it got more momentum. And it actually ran over a really good friend of mine and hit another person. It was a serious situation. Well, they are in the middle of nowhere, literally. So they had to get this gal into another person’s jeep, drive her a long distance for a helicopter could meet. So we really try not to hit those spotters. So having that experience and understanding what transpired in that, I definitely have moved myself further away. Now I, I love my husband. He’s one of the best drivers I’ve ever done. There are a few people that I don’t mind being close to because they know how I spot, they understand they’re not going to do anything. But when I get with the newbie, I get with somebody, I don’t know, maybe their experience, they say their experience. Those are the ones I really got to watch for. I am going to make myself, I’m a good jeep to a jeep and a half length away. And I always, always, always have an out period.(…) So if you’re going to be a spotter, you better have decent shoes. You better know that you can move, jump out of the way because the jeep doesn’t always go the trajectory that you think. And somebody could accidentally slip off the brake and go to the gas. And all of a sudden you’ve got a vehicle out of control. And then that driver is in a panic. Right? So then you have that issue.(…) And you have more to go ahead, Amanda.(…) So part of what I love about non-verbals, and I want to ask you how you handle this is because something that I, it’s like one of my pet peeves, or I don’t love when I’m at a park is, you know, when you’re listening to verbal commands, there can be chaos. There’s a lot of people around talking and maybe, you know, giving their input or talking to somebody and you’re trying to listen to your spotter. And sometimes it’s hard. Like when Micah and I spot if he’s using verbal commands because he has to be somewhere where I cannot see him, it’s on a radio. He wears a headset on the radio and he’s talking. I can’t hear him very plainly. Like so I, but part of what I don’t like is that chaos where there’s a lot of people say it, yelling, passenger, passenger. But maybe now you can’t hear your spotter over that. When somebody is trying to give input when you were spotting somebody and you’re using your non-verbals, how do you handle that?(…) You put the input people or do you, do you just be like, stop?

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So I don’t have a problem telling anybody that it’s, you know, my show, whatever. I’m not trying to have an ego here. But when I get to an obstacle and there’s five or six people yelling everything, I just, if I’m not spotting, I sit down and I just watch the circus.(…) If the new, if the driver’s newbie, I’m going to say, guys, we need one person. I don’t have a problem standing up for that. Now, if I’m the spotter and you’re interjecting, I will stop the driver and say to that person, they need to listen to me only. I’d appreciate it if you didn’t.

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And there’s nothing more nerve wracking as a driver, especially a new one, when you’re trying to decipher that crazy thing. Well, and that’s a good point too. When you are in a group, the best thing we love to do is get out and watch every single obstacle. Okay. That is the most fun of wheeling. It really is one you want to see. I mean, sure. We let people get stuck and you want to see how that works. And we all want to pitch in and you got your gloves and you got your, whatever you’re doing. But the bottom line is if you’re, if you’re observing, you need to be quiet and especially if that person is new. And if you are in a group, you kind of know who’s new. Maybe you know, there’s five people that you’ve met before. This is somebody you never met before. Maybe they’ve quietly said to the leader of that group, Hey, I’m brand new. Please help me through. It is your job as a spotter. You’re sort of the one in charge. Okay. So if you’re commanding a vehicle over obstacles, then I believe you have the authority to tell anybody else, Hey,(…) we need to stop with the multiple commands. They’re not able to hear everybody at once. Thank you for your input, but I’ll take it from here. And I’ve had it where guys, it’s usually guys and there’s nothing wrong with it. And we all have experience. I’ve sat and watched and I’m like it to myself going, Oh my gosh, he’s not going to make that when he needs a more driver to myself. And I don’t say it. I can’t. Now, if there’s a safety violation going on, and what I mean by that is somebody got, you know, in the cross hair, somebody’s walking. Usually that will happen when let’s say that you’re not as set up, you’re on 33s or 35s. You should have been on 37s. You shouldn’t be on that trail. It doesn’t matter. But let’s say you’re doing 35, 33s or 35s. You’re on a trail, maybe like yourself, Anastasia, and all of a sudden you can get over this, but you need a little help. So they’re putting rocks underneath to help you get a little bit of a lift. Okay. Us Jeepers, we tend not to like rocks. We don’t want rocks. We want to see if we can do it on our own. However, there are times in situations where you got a big, huge group, you might have to put a rock in. So we’ve said to the driver, stop, do not move. And I’ve got somebody underneath that’s putting rocks in that spotter does not get close and do all the work. The spotter stands back and watches guard. Okay. So I do a big segment on winching and I’m a huge proponent on safety. And if I’m in charge,(…) no, but nothing’s getting done until I have cleared the vehicles. So if you’ve got somebody underneath putting rocks in, you’re the spotter, you don’t do anything until you have made sure you’ve checked. There’s nobody going around anywhere. Okay. We’ve had this happen on a trail, um, fairly experienced, cheaper. He was not listening to me. It’s a guy thing to a woman. I’m fine. I don’t care. Whatever. Um, so I finally said to my husband, you need to take over. He’s gotten stuck three times. He’s not listening to my line. I’m done. I’m going to walk away from it because I’m tired of him getting stuck. So he gets stuck the last time we try to get him unstuck. We actually need to get a Jack out, believe it or not. I mean, that’s how serious this was a Jack. We don’t hardly ever use the Jack. So we’re putting rocks underneath to stabilize it. And he decides to go from a foot on the brake to setting the parking brake. Well, I’m underneath the Jeep putting rocks in. My husband is the most patient man in the world. He’s the nicest man in the world. I thought he was going to pull him through the windshield. I’m not kidding. He was ready to just strangle him. I said, stop, stop means stop, you know, and it doesn’t mean take your foot. Oh, I’m sorry. I did. My foot got tired. Ah, so again, when you are the spotter, you can control that situation. So as to your point, Amanda, if your husband’s giving you commands, no, one thing I don’t care about the radio is the delay.(…) So he’s got a mic and he says something. It has to trans, transmit to your radio. You then have to hear it. So I am not a proponent of that, but I do understand there are trails where maybe he’s hidden and he can’t see you. Um, all the trails that I’ve done, I just, I don’t like it when someone has a radio. I’m not going to wait for that command because he may see stop and you have to wait for that to go through. And then you finally stop, you’re off the line and it could be the difference of it. So, but anyway, that’s a different conversation. So you guys keep doing what you’re doing because you’re doing it. Good. Um, only when I can’t see girl, cause I’m a visual person. Yeah. I like to see, but every now and then you will have one of those situations where you have to, yeah.(…) And there’s times too, when this might be a super high up top and you’re at the spotters at the top, you know, and that’s where I will actually walk down, tell the driver what I want them to do and walk back up. So, but that’s me again, I’m still stuck with that nonverbal. I’m still going to try to get myself in a position on that trail that they can see me because they’re using me as their guide. But a lot of times those trails are just drive it straight up. Nice, easy throttle. Don’t let off. That’s another thing too. We could talk about is letting off, right? That means you put your foot on the brake on the gas. You’re going, going, going. Your brain says, Oh my gosh, I’m going too fast. And you let off. Woo. Well, you lose momentum going uphill. Forget it. You’re going to roll yourself back down and start over. So imagine yourself trying to push something uphill and then you stop your momentum. Now you not only need to have that extra strength in the back to push it, but now you need to have those tires dragging. If you’re not air down enough, if that trail’s too soft, if you’re trying to go over stuff, it’s slippery. Forget it. You might as well back up and try again. So momentum is super good. And Estasia, you know this riding dirt bikes, you do not let off, right? No. Well, actually you and the Grenadier. Yeah. The Grenadier with me in it all packed up everything at 6,000 pounds. So I cannot afford to just stay at a huge incline and just crawl really slow. I mean, obviously if I’m in Moab, which I’ve done, it’s, you know, slick rock. You’re sticking to it. It’s a very different ball game than here on the East coast. I mean, a lot of the places over here are always wet, slick,(…) sandy, muddy, walk smooth.(…) Every time you go back, there’s a washout that has changed the entire waterfall system. I mean, I went to an obstacle the other day and I was just like, this is completely different than it was last time. And I was there six months ago. And well, let me tell you, I was there six months ago when it was ice. We decided to take another way down to a lake. And unfortunately, I thought I was like, Oh, I can do this. It’ll be fine. I have to get off the mountain faster. I have to bring a kid home, blah, blah, blah. I’ll be okay. And they’re like, we never wheel alone. I said, of course, let’s not wheel alone. Thank the Lord. I didn’t wheel alone because that would have been the most stupid thing I’ve ever done. I ended up having to have my husband do a portion because I was on a hairpin turn. Little did I know the entire side of the mountain, there was snow on the ground ice. No big deal. Okay. It wasn’t terrible. However, the dark side of the mountain that didn’t receive the daylight all day, didn’t have the runoff. It only had the runoff that stayed ice over and everything was like a literal pond. Hairpin turns going all the way down the mountain. There was probably, I would say it was like, probably at least 30 meters of just a stretch, 30 to 50 meters of a stretch. That was just a huge decline. My car is over 5,000 pounds. I’m going around a curve and there’s a huge drop off on the side. And I told my husband, I had wheeled at this point, we were probably seven hours in that day and it was going to start to get dark. And I said to him, I said, look, you know, he grew up in the cat skills. He drives snow, ice, all that stuff. I said, look, I’m at the point where I don’t feel safe doing this because my initial reaction is probably going to get me sliding and falling off the side of the mountain because I will either panic or I will hit the brakes and I will slide out. Because I had already been just kind of like just doing this the whole time. Just because my car is much heavier, my husband’s car is, you know, 3,500 pounds. It’s like, he can kind of go over stuff a little bit more easily than I can. I’m like just a sitting heavy, heavy duck. Once that momentum starts going by itself, it’s like bye bye. See you later on ice. I don’t mess with ice. Like I get it, but it was just a dangerous situation. He did it and I watched it and I almost puked and the back end fish tail and he just drove into the fish tail and around the next curve and I was like, yay, I didn’t have to do that and no one died.(…) Yeah, exactly.(…) Yeah, and there’s, you know, when you’re wheeling too, it depends. We talk about crawling on the rocks and doing that kind of obstacles. It is slow, consistent momentum. So it’s very slow. You don’t want to do the start stops that a lot of people do. You know, they’ll start, stop, start and stop. But that’s a newbie driver and somebody brand new doesn’t understand that because their brain is getting involved and the brain says, oh, it’s too fast. You’re going to fall. You’re going to do this. And that’s where that start, stop comes. And then all of a sudden you’ve got out of control vehicles. So right. Right. And that’s motorcycles. You got to throttle out of the curve. Otherwise you’re going to go. Yeah. Yeah. But in, in wheeling too, we don’t want to go fast. I know some people like to send it. You’ll go YouTube videos everywhere. People just ripping the trails. I’m like, that’s not what it’s about. So well, and I just want to be better off-roaders too sometimes because they don’t just do.(…) Yeah. No. And sometimes we’re a little more cautious. We need to have a little more grit and go for it. But Hey, I just want to quickly mention too that using a spotter is a badge of honor, by the way, folks. So if you’re listening and you’re like, I don’t need a spotter, that’s fine.

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But sometimes you do. But what it means is you tackled a tough obstacle, whether it’s your first time or your experienced driver. And I’ve actually put people through who have very much experience. I would trust them to fix Jeeps, to drive, to do anything. And they just want that extra set of eyes. So having an extra set of eyes is super powerful. Don’t be afraid to use a spotter. And that goes for everybody who’s experienced. There’s nothing wrong with using a spotter. So I just kind of want to say that because I know sometimes we focus on the newbie driver,(…) but that’s really kind of it. So anything you want to add, Amanda, to what I’ve said, Anna Sage, you might have questions. Oh, listen, I mean, you know, I’m not like super experienced by any means, but I’ve wheeled a lot. And I know my rig and I, you know, I’m fairly comfortable doing some pretty, you know, gnarly stuff. But most of the time I’m fairly comfortable doing some gnarly stuff with another set of eyes. Right. Even if I want to take, you know, I know the line or something pretty difficult, sometimes I’ll be like, Hey, just watch, just watch me. You know what I mean? Like, and if something starts to go astray, you know, yeah, and there’s nothing wrong with that because at the end of the day, my goal is to keep it rubber side down. And sometimes it’s that happening and not well, and the spotter’s job too, is really to mitigate or minimize damage. If you are wheeling over rocks and over obstacles and you’re sending it, you’re going to break. I’m sorry, it’s going to happen. Now you can break no matter what, because maybe it’s wear and tear, maybe it’s just you took the wrong turn. There’s a ton of reasons why somebody would break down and it’s not always because they send it. But I can guarantee you if you are hitting the rocks hard, if you’re coming off, we talk about controlling your rear coming off the back end, that driver in their brain, once their front tires have cleared, they think I’m free. And then your rears go bam. And you’re like, Oh, what was that? Well, yeah, I just broke your bumper.(…) You know, so it’s really easy to break things and destroy stuff. The other thing about crawling and being slow is that if you have to make a change, it’s so much easier to stop the vehicle in its momentum and make the change. And again, it’s no big deal. If you try a line, it doesn’t work back up and redo it. We talk about picking a line. How do you do that? What’s the purpose of picking a line? The idea is to go have fun. If you want to try a super hard obstacle, go for it. If you want to keep on the easy side, go for it. But the idea is that as you’re driving and as you’re learning, you might take the easy right now. That’s okay. You’re learning how your vehicle moves, how it works, what’s the width and length of it, how those tires operate, how did they work? And then you can move to the medium and then you can move to the hard. It’s okay. Use a spotter. So anyway, I just love to do that. So it’s one of my favorite topics. Part of the cam cam rotary. If you really think about it at the end of the day, when you are maybe around a campfire, maybe you guys are just like decompressing while you’re airing up. I mean, you talk about the ways that you helped each other and you use teamwork.(…) And some people are like, “Man, I didn’t even know. I didn’t even know I was that close on my diff or you didn’t know something was going on.” In my opinion, off-roading is a lot of friendships being formed, connections and trust, and a lot of love being shared. And that gets really strong between a good spotter and the person that they’re spotting because you have stories to tell afterwards. And I think that’s a very special part.(…) I don’t think anybody should be out necessarily wheeling alone. I really learned that early on, but sharing all the experiences make it so much more fun. And it’s just, it’s a lot more special. You know what I mean?(…) Yeah. No, I mean, that’s something we advocate is never to go out alone, but it’s hard when you’re new and you’re trying to figure out how to wheel and you don’t know anybody yet. So we do talk about that in other episodes of how to find people and stuff. So, but anyway, we’re going to go ahead and wrap it up unless you girls have any questions for me. I’m happy to answer.

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No, ma’am. I love it.(…) Oh yeah. Hit it, girl. Let’s hear it. I want to know, like,(…) when you were spotting and it was maybe probably the most memorable spotting circumstance ever. Good or bad.(…) Okay. So my most memorable, because I have two of the greatest people that taught me, so I have that memory, but we did a 24 hour, 10 black diamond trails event and it was 24 solid hours. And I got to spot the curries. If you guys know rock, jock and curries, oh yes. A difficult party.(…) Those guys know everything to do. And I got to, there’s a wedge we have. It’s like, it’s a V. Okay. So you got to put the tires exactly through this notch. I’m sure they could have done it on their own, but they actually asked if I would spot them. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. This is like the ultimate for me because I know that they race. They have been in the industry for a hundred years. I mean, whatever, not quite that long.(…) And it just to me was my most memorable. So, but I have had on the opposite side, some people that have a really bad attitude and some guys that have a problem with a woman spotting them and telling them what to do. And so in that situation, I have removed myself from that. That guy was talking about who got stuck. I didn’t take it personal.(…) I will not spot him on any of our runs that we do. It’s okay. I’m okay with that. And there’s times when he’s like, you’re, you’re a really good spotter. And I’m like, yeah, too glad you’re never going to get me because it’s not worth it to me to have somebody not follow what I’m saying. And he’s the kind that would use you and then turn and look and do his own thing. I’m like, you know what? You don’t need me. So that would be my two opposites. But yeah, being able to spot the Curry’s through that was pretty, pretty dang special. So yeah. Heck yeah. That’s awesome. And you know, this conversation has led me to a new topic I want to cover not in this episode, but further one about momentum because I think you make or break a line and it’s something that takes a lot of practice to get. So we have, let’s put that in our notes, Wendy. We’re going to, you know, we can actually do that when we talk about left foot breaking because that goes together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all right. Well, it’s been a fabulous journey. Thanks for listening to us. And Anastasia, so nice to meet you. And I’m glad you’re going to be part of the Chicktat team.

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But that’s it for our episode today. And we really appreciate you guys listening. We hope you’ve been inspired by the stories, insights and tips that we’ve shared. You can always reach out to us. I’m happy to talk to anybody. I’m happy to share what my theories are and spotting and things like that. But there are no limits of what you can achieve when you embrace your passion and fearlessly chase your dreams. So if you’ve enjoyed this episode, make sure that you’re subscribing to Jeep Talk Show. You can do that through jeeptalkshow.com slash contact. You can get ahold of us. Also follow us on Instagram. We’re on YouTube. Yay. Hopefully you’re watching us. You get to see what I’m doing with my hands and also on Facebook. So, and I think we’re on, what does Tony do? TikTok too. I think he’s on a bunch of stuff. So anyway, check it out. Yeah, check it out. We are so happy that you guys came and listened and we appreciate you. Yay for the 18th. We’ll talk to you guys soon. Thank you.(…) Broadcasting since 2010.(…) You’re my friend. You’re my new friend.