🚙 **Jeep Talk Show Interview: Tom Zielinski on Jeep’s Future – Luxury Brand or Enthusiast Icon?** 🚙
In this exciting episode of the Jeep Talk Show, host Tony Muckleroy sits down with Tom Zielinski, off-road enthusiast and creator of Four Fest Events, to dive deep into the world of Jeeps, off-roading, and the brand’s evolving direction. Tom shares his insights on why Jeep shouldn’t become solely a luxury brand like Range Rover or Mercedes G-Wagon, but instead balance its rugged roots for “rednecks and people like me” with high-end appeal. “There’s plenty of room for both,” as Tom puts it – from hardcore trail warriors to aspirational luxury seekers. We cover: – Jeep’s new leadership under Bob Broderdorf and the shift back to core enthusiast values. – Upcoming events: Detroit Four Fest (September 5-6) with rock climb time trials, Off-Road Night Fest sponsored by Tyri Lights, and West Virginia Four Fest (September 26-28) at ACE Adventure Resort. – Balancing profits with Jeep’s iconic “Jeepness” – off-road capability, community, and adventure. – EV tech in Jeeps: Thoughts on the 4xe, Recon, and why full self-driving (like Tesla’s) could transform towing to Moab, but infrastructure and enthusiast driving experience must come first. – Welcoming newbies to off-roading: Tips on safe trails, stock Jeep capabilities, and building the Jeep community (without the club drama!). – Sponsor shoutouts: Get 15% off Trails Off Road with code JTS15 at TrailsOffRoad.com – detailed trail guides for your next adventure. Protect your windshield with 20% off Windshield Defense using JTS20 at WindshieldDefense.com. And don’t miss Tyri Lights for military-grade brightness and durability. Whether you’re a seasoned Jeeper hitting the trails or a newbie dreaming of your first Wrangler or Gladiator, this episode is packed with passion, stories, and real talk on keeping Jeep authentic. 👉 **Timestamps:** – 0:00 Intro & Sponsors – 5:00 Meeting Tom Zielinski – Off-Road Enthusiast & Event Producer – 10:00 Upcoming Four Fest Events: Detroit & West Virginia – 15:00 Jeep’s Brand Direction: Luxury vs. Rugged Roots – 25:00 New Jeep Leadership & Enthusiast Comeback – 35:00 EV & Self-Driving Tech in Jeeps – Tesla Influence? – 45:00 Building the Jeep Community & Newbie Tips – 55:00 Sean Holman Update & Closing Thoughts 🔗 **Links Mentioned:** – Four Fest Events: https://fourfestevents.com – Trails Off Road: https://trailsoffroad.com (Use JTS15 for 15% off) – Windshield Defense: https://windshielddefense.com (Use JTS20 for 20% off) – Tyri Lights: Check them out at Detroit Four Fest! – Jeep Talk Show: https://jeeptalkshow.com If you love Jeeps, off-roading, and honest discussions on the automotive world, hit that LIKE button, SUBSCRIBE for more episodes, and COMMENT below: Should Jeep go full luxury or stay true to its trail-blazing heritage? 🛣️ #JeepTalkShow #JeepBrand #OffRoadEvents #DetroitFourFest #JeepLuxury #JeepEnthusiast #Wrangler #Gladiator #Jeep4xE #SelfDrivingJeep #TeslaEV #OffRoading #JeepCommunity #FourFestEvents #TyriLights #TrailsOffRoad #WindshieldDefense Rev up your engines, Jeep lovers— the Jeep Talk Show is here to take you on a wild ride! For 15 years, we’ve been the ultimate pit stop for Jeep enthusiasts, delivering off-road thrills, insider tips, and a whole lotta Jeep passion. With a powerhouse crew of hosts and team members, we’re dropping five action-packed episodes every week to fuel your Jeep obsession! Buckle up for our fan-favorite Chic Chat, a women-centric, women hosted episode that’s all about empowering female Jeepers. It’s the perfect space for women to dive into the world of Jeeps and off-roading, hosted by fearless ladies who live for the trail. But that’s just the start—we’ve got over 1,200 episodes waiting to rev up your day, whether you’re tearing down the highway, mowing the lawn, or pumping iron at the gym. Watch us on video or listen audio-only—your call, your adventure! Join the Jeep Talk Show family and become part of the ultimate Jeep community! Jump into our Discord chat at jeeptalkshow.com/discord, support us on Patreon for ad-free episodes at www.patreon.com/jeeptalkshow, or catch our live Round Table every Tuesday at 7:30 PM CT via Zoom (https://jeeptalkshow.com/roundtable, password: jeep). Stay in the loop with our newsletter at https://jeeptalkshow.com/newsletter and follow the action on Instagram @jeeptalkshow (instagram.com/jeeptalkshow). Head to https://jeeptalkshow.com to explore our world of Jeep madness, subscribe, and let us make your day a little more rugged and a lot more fun. Ready to roll with us? Let’s hit the trails together!#JeepTalkShow #JeepLife #OffRoad
the Jeep brand needs to be a luxury brand. I think it needs to have the brand for the rednecks and people like me and for the luxury. I think there’s plenty of room there for both.
(…)
Well, there certainly is.(…) And sometimes you can get a little bit lost in chasing profits, I think. And you look at Land Rover,(…) Range Rover.
(…)
You look at some of these other makers. You look at Mercedes G-Wagons. Holy cow, they’re $200,000.
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Hi, Dale, boys and girls. It is time for another Jeep Talk Show interview. We’re going to be talking with Tom Zielinski. This is the first time
(Explosion)
times, which, which is fine. I mean, it’s neat because it’s cool re-interviewing people because they’re like old friends. Now you and I have met on a couple of occasions, two or three occasions, I believe. And so we actually know each other in person, but it’s always fun for me, uh, to meet people that I’ve spoken to here on the show. You know, you get to know somebody virtually and, but it’s, it’s exciting when you get to meet them in person.(…) Well, I think I would even take that a step further and say it’s even more fun when we can be on trail. Oh yeah. So we have that experience because we all belong out on trail, uh, at some point, hopefully together and, uh, and sharing that experience. So yeah, it’s great to be back. Great to, uh, to be here. I can’t think of the last time I was on. Um,(…) but it’s been a little bit. You know, we’ve done a bunch of stuff and, and I see Chris at lots of events and we always create some fun content at our events and at other people’s events. And, and so it’s, it’s great to be back though. Yeah. Chris likes going to those things and I’m always very appreciative, uh, cause it’s stuff I can’t do. I mean, I just don’t live in that, that area of the world. All right. So, uh, Tom, you wrote us an intro. I feel like I really need to read it, even though it’s very short. I would suspect that you’ve never had a conversation this short as this intro life off road enthusiast, former motocross racer, creator and producer of many off-road and action sports events over the last 25 years. Uh, it’s 25, but it seems like 35. Right. Uh, you can find out more about, uh, uh, Tom’s events at four fest events.com. That’s the number four fest events.com. And, uh, you know, Tom, I didn’t look it up. Uh, when’s your next four Fest event?(…) So, um, we’ve got, man, we’ve got a jam packed schedule coming up between off-road events and road racing events and all the stuff, but next four Fest is Detroit four Fest that comes up September five and six, and then that’s followed in terms of off-road and Jeep stuff that’s followed on September, uh, 26, 27, and 28 with our West Virginia four Fest event, which is loads and loads of fun also in a beautiful location. Uh, a couple of people last year even said, man, I can’t believe they let us come here and off-road in this beautiful spot at ACE adventure resort. So it’s really awesome. So, uh, yeah, that’s a good point. You say it’s a Jeep event. You’re a bit of a trader because you don’t just, uh, uh,(…) do Jeep events. You do all kinds of events. I’m thinking of course, the Broncos.(…) I, I am for sure. If you wish to characterize me as a trader, um, you can. Uh, just remember four Fest events are powered by Jeep. So we’re very proud of that. And that’s a very long standing relationship as you know. Oh yeah. And, uh, and we’re very proud of that, but certainly we welcome other brands at our events. And, and in terms of our road racing stuff, obviously with road racing events, there aren’t a whole lot of Jeeps, but breaking news. Um, we are going to have, uh, I’ll be really careful how I say it, we are going to have some extremely well-known Jeep drivers, particularly a couple from the ultra four space, uh, that will be road racing, their very high performance Jeeps at West Virginia hill fest. Okay. We get Chris and one of those behind the, uh, in the driver’s seat behind the steering wheel.
(…)
Will you be able to, were you able to drive one? Yes. But see, that’s not fair.(…) Correct. No, that’s not fair.
(…)
Make no claims about fairness. Here’s what I’m telling you. Um, no, it’s not fair.
(…)
Um, it’s just that the, you got the insurance. That’s what it is. Chris needs better insurance. The guys that, the guys that have these, uh,(…) seven to 900 horsepower, uh, off-road racing monsters are pretty finicky about who’s in them. And, uh, they’re not looking to have them upside down, uh, on a, on a course.
(…)
Uh, okay. I can buy that. I don’t know. I bet you Chris would drive it even though, even though I’m wondering if you go, Oh no, I can’t do that. I’d loved it. I would absolutely love it. As long as I made sure that, uh, the, they released liability on me in case anything happened. I like, I love driving fast. So it was a horsepower is a bad thing for me to have.(…) Hill fast is certainly the place to do that. And, uh, and that’s another one where so many people, um, came up, put their armor on my shoulder and said, Hey, you’re, you’re sure we’re allowed to do this. Cause this feels really, really off. Like they’re letting us exciting when it feels wrong. Yes. They’re letting us take over this beautiful ski resort and, and we’re doing really cool high horsepower fun things. So it’s good. That’s really, really cool. So, uh, again, the Detroit tour fest coming up some September, what?(…) Five and six. Um, so that will be a kickoff on Friday. We do a great thing with Jeep to support, um, some local students and bring a bunch of students out. We’re also bringing out a couple of the local, uh, colleges, uh, in sort of a.(…) Learn the trades moment, uh, to talk with some of our amazing vendors folks that you know, well, like, like Dana, like the folks at Jeep and, and, and many others, and then, um, of course, one of your good friends, Tyree off-road lighting, uh, is the title sponsor to the, uh, off-road night fest on Friday night. So it’s that’s brought to, uh, to everybody by Tyree off-road lighting and then straight into the action on Saturday with the addition, uh, of a very, very upgraded and new, um, rock climb time trial competition. Uh, we kicked it off last year, did it on a small scale. It was really successful. And so this year we’re really up in our game on the, uh, the time trial rock climb competition, and we’ve added a lot of really hard 10 scale, uh,(…) steep rock climb as part of this time trial. So it’s going to be a blast. Uh, and I’ll just say, uh, Tyree lights is a, is a sponsor, uh, currently a sponsor here on the show for our interview episodes. Uh, but, uh, I have Tyree lights on my, uh, my gladiator that Ken sent me, uh, a couple of years ago, and they are just amazing. And if you were curious about how good the Tyree lights are going to Detroit forest, the night fest is an excellent way to find out, but bring sunglasses with you because they are that bright. Uh, they are extremely bright. Yeah. And I would even go a step further and say, there’s, there’s lights on the market that are bright. No question. There there’s stuff that’s out there. I think one of the things that Tyree brings to the market is that mining and military backdrop where not only are they bright, but they’ve got to be burly tough, take the abuse. You know, you can drown them. You can, you can bump them and bang them and they just keep going in. Goodness. So much testing. They do so much internal testing. They have to, because the commercial aspect, I didn’t even think about the military side of it, but yeah, absolutely.
(…)
Yeah. They’re subject to a lot of testing. So we think it’s great. Um, certainly we all know somebody that’s really been out in it and they’ve lost lighting, um, in some far away place. That could be critical. The fun goes away quick. Yeah. Uh, it could be dangerous. Uh, I mean, you could be, you could be stuck until, uh, some sort of daybreak. And, uh, we recently had some major flooding, uh, in, uh, in Texas that killed lots of people. Could you imagine being in that trying to evacuate, trying to flee? And cause it was in the early morning hours, uh, trying to flee. And now your lights aren’t working. So yeah, I mean, it’s just like people say about Warren wrenches, you know, get a Warren wench because you know, it’s good. Uh, it doesn’t mean it always will be, but that’s generally the go-to wench to go with, because if you want it to work, and that’s the same thing with Tyree lights, I consider Tyree lights right up there, uh, with a level of Warren with lights. And also too, do they have some really cool things coming out ever since, uh, Eric has, uh, has joined, they have been going, uh, uh, full balls on new products, uh, and, uh, also too, I’ll just mention this isn’t a commercial for them. I just really, I just really appreciate their support and the lights, uh, that, uh, that I have on the Jeep. Um, they also have, um, $100 lights now. You can get the basic lights. I don’t like the name. I think they should call them fancy or store brand, but not, not basic.
(…)
And well, it look, and this was a conversation, as you know, I worked with those guys a lot. Oh, was this your idea? I’m sorry, Tom. No, no, no, no, not taking credit for anything here, but this has been a conversation for a long time. And, and there’s gotta be various price points in the marketplace. And there are some cool things coming out. I,(…) well, I’ll be careful, but I did get a shipment of some things today. As a matter of fact, uh, that will be left with your legs.
(…)
It’ll be on my Jeep, uh, over the weekend.(…) And, um, so we’ll, we’ll do some testing here coming up and, uh, and, and we’re really looking forward to when you’re installing lights on your Jeep. Do you point at somebody and say install those lights?
(…)
I there’s people that help me. There we go. I thought so. I’m very grateful. There are people that help me and, uh, and I’m grateful for that, but I love jumping in the mix and, uh, and doing some stuff and, and I know how to operate the lifts in the shop and I do understand all of these things. So I’m not just, I bet you remember back when you didn’t have a lift and that’s how much fun in the driveway it was or on the ground someplace. So let me ask you this. You mentioned Jeep a couple of times. Uh, have you had an opportunity to meet with some of the new, uh, Jeep management? I don’t know if there’s more than one. I just, I’m thinking of one, uh, uh, Bob, I call him, uh, uh, bro guy, cause I can’t pronounce his last name. Bob Broderdorf. Broderdorf. Thank you. Pretty interesting. Bob took on his new position last year,(…) two days before Detroit Forefest, two days. So 48 hours later, where’s he? He’s at Detroit Forefest doing Jeep off-road things with us and talking to all of these students and interacting with all the people. And it’s, you know, it’s funny cause it’s a little bit like, well, I guess jump in the deep end and let’s go. That’s great. And so, yeah, very grateful for, for that level of support and for, for all the things that Jeep does, but especially the fact that the true believers, uh, are always out at our events and, and it’s, it’s great to see them. And, and a lot of the old school guys, Jim Allen and Nick Kappa and, and just the guys that have, you know, been around a long time and seen a lot of things are always out there. Our good buddy, Greg Henderson, obviously is, is always, uh, uh, with us, but, but yeah, it’s a little bit of a gathering of, of, um, all the executive ranks and, and it’s fun to get them to all interact with all of the aftermarket folks that are there at our event and, and, and the other brands that, that show up as well. So it’s, it’s amazing. And the cool thing is you guys keep having Chris come out, even though you know, he’s going to talk to those people. So that’s good.
(…)
I, I don’t, I’m weak. It’s, it’s a weakness. I just keep welcoming him back and, uh, and it’s great to have him be part of it. In fact, last year, as you know, I put him on the spot and made him do some announcing and, and all kinds of things. You can’t shut that guy up. He loves doing that. He did great. It was, it was loads of fun and, uh, and he really enjoyed himself. So, uh, so yeah, we welcome him and, and we love having Jeep talk show. Be a part of what we do. Um,(…) all of you are as authentic to the community as anybody. And, and in the end, let’s face it, community is what we want and need. And, and it’s, and it’s really what makes this so cool. It’s not just the off-roading it’s the storytelling and so on. And, and as I get older and older, I have a much greater appreciation for the community, uh, as much as I do, scaring the wits out of myself, doing something sketchy, you know, it’s, it’s fun to go off road. It’s fun to have the Jeep. It’s, it’s fun for them to be bright, new and shiny and the features and everything. But you’re right. What it is, is it’s really about the community. Uh, and, and, and in this inadvertently, we created a Jeep talk show. Community here. And, uh, it was actually somebody that just mentioned, he goes, this is, this is really a community that’s been built. Cause I’m against clubs. I do not like clubs and this they’ll tease me about it. It’s the Jeep talk show club. No, it’s not. There’s no treasurer. There’s none of that BS drama that goes along with a lot of the clubs. Uh, so, uh, yeah, we, we really liked the community. So it’s exactly right. So let me, let me get back to the, um, to the, the, the new management where I think many of us, uh, that are, that have been long time lovers of Jeep. We’re concerned about the direction Jeep was going. And, and now it seems that there’s been a dramatic shift in how it’s going to be run. Are you getting the feeling for that? Is that something that you think is going to be good? I mean, I don’t necessarily need, need to make profits, but I kind of feel good if they were making profits, cause I want to, I want spare parts in the future.
(…)
So a couple of things, uh, and I’ll speak pretty openly and I, I always have been pretty open about this,(…) that some of the direction that had a more European feel to it, wasn’t going to work out well in the American market. Right. Um, I think that proved itself out. That’s not me breaking news or, or saying things that are talking out of school or anything, it just, it wasn’t a great direction for the brand. The brand has a core group of enthusiasts,(…) not that they need to be catered to, but they can’t be pushed away. Right. And they can’t be told that their stuff doesn’t matter. And that’s not the direction anymore and, and things like that. So it’s great to see the enthusiast side of this make a comeback. It’s great to see somebody like Tim Canisquez kind of overseeing, uh, a lot of the brands, uh, going forward because Tim’s, um, performance street cred, um, love of all things, enthusiast is, is unwavering and, and is, and is so well known by all and, and we think that’s, that’s an incredible part of this. And it needs to get back to that core of, of, um, of being an enthusiast brand and being very aspirational in my eyes. And, and again, I don’t get to make the decisions on any corporate level whatsoever. I do get to provide a bit of a platform through our events and, and through our other marketing stuff, but, but in the end, um,(…) it’s an enthusiast brand and it has to be aspirational, even if you don’t ever take your Wrangler, your gladiator out and do these hardcore things like I might love to do. Yeah. I mean, you don’t have to, but you’d like to have that ability. You want the Jeep to still maintain its jeepness. Yes. Jeepness. That’s a great word to use. And I just, just before jumping on with you, I did an interview with the Detroit news and one of the reporters from the Detroit news was asking, well, how many people actually take their vehicles off road and all that? One of the biggest points I made. And one of the things that we’re trying to do a great job with is off road one on one and that’s welcoming new people. You know, you’ve seen me on the trail, out spotting and all that stuff. And that’s fine.(…) But welcoming new people into this amazing adventure lifestyle. That’s the aspirational part of it. You bought the vehicle. Let’s go do the things and, but let’s go do things in a really safe and effective way.
(…)
Tony, I’m sure you’ve heard people go, Oh, well, I use mine as my daily driver. And I can’t wreck it. Well, I understand it completely. My wife was telling me the same thing. First time I took the gladiator to Moab.
(…)
And did we lead you astray? No, of course not. I wasn’t worried about it. I told her it’d be fine. And I said, that’s part of jeeping. Sometimes you get a scratch. Most of the time you don’t. Sometimes you don’t. So I think getting people past this idea of they’re going to destroy their daily driver.(…) Um, is it possible? Yes.(…) Is it highly unlikely? Yes.
(…)
It’s, it’s also possible that they’re going to get in a crash on their way to the office the next day. Yeah. Meteorite strike, you know, you get hit by meteorites. You could, uh, to be a terrible outcome.
(…)
But what a great, what a great interview for the podcast if they didn’t die though. Yeah, right.(…) I’ll let you know. Yeah. Um, but, but no, we, we need to welcome more people into this. You know, your listeners largely are going to be more toward core than they are brand new to, Oh no, I think it’s just the opposite. I think we cater to the newbies. Uh, yeah, we can, we, because they’re making newbies all the time. And I think a lot of people are curious about Jeeps. They want one. They’ve wanted one to all their, their whole life and they, they drop 50, $60,000. And now the idea of going off road, it’s like, Oh no. So we help them understand that a stock Jeep can do probably 85% of the trails out there. And, uh, there’s always bypasses. There’s always things you could do. And just getting out there, just on the dirt or on the rock. Nothing, nothing other than, I mean, it’s not even on level. It’s just amazing. The thought, the thing you can go places where most people can’t go.(…) Most people can’t or won’t. Um, so I just love the idea of getting new people involved. Yes. Some of them are going to go all in and really become immersed in it and, and become really enthusiasts about it. Some people won’t and that’s okay. They’re still part of what we do. And we need to have opportunities for them to engage on all of those levels. And by the way,(…) Jeep talk show or Jeep talk club. I think we need to think about this, Tony. It’s the Jeep talk cult. Let’s do that. It’s a cult.
(…)
I’m looking forward to the groupies. I’ll just say that right up front. Uh, there you go. My problem is there’ll be 70 or older and, uh, mainly men.
(…)
Not that there’s anything under that. You’re on your own. So, uh, but anyway, it just, we need to roll out the welcome to all of these new folks, make them feel welcome. You know, at our events, at every event, at every kind of event and, and then get them involved in the lifestyle and get them to enjoy some adventure. Um, last year, speaking of Warren last year, um, we helped out a bit with some, um, spotting and trail guide stuff at Windrock, uh, following, uh, the, obviously great Smokey mountain Jeep invasion. I guess it’s okay to say that. Sure.
(…)
And like we thought initially those guys said, Oh, I don’t know. We could have like 40 people or something. Yeah, sure.
(…)
It was a lot more. Lots of them weren’t experienced off-roaders. Um, but we guided a less experienced group and, and there was some very stock vehicles and some people going, we’ll never make it. We’re not going to get through this. And you’re like, yeah, you will come on. Just look at my eyes. Oh, it was just the look on their face. Whenever they’ve made it over the obstacle that they thought they were going to die on. It’s just amazing. Yes. It’s an, it, it makes my heart go pitter patter. When, when I see that stuff happen because. Well, you’re a newbie at one point yourself and you get to revisit it. It’s much like having children. You get to see the world from their eyes. It was 146 years ago that I was a newbie.
(…)
Wheels were still wood. Yeah. Uh, so, uh,(…) bringing you back to the, uh, the Jeep leadership, uh, how, how do you feel about the Jeep leadership? Are they getting it now? Do you have you, have you been involved with them long enough to think that they’re turning it around that maybe we’re going to see better prices and, oh, I was going to mention earlier, I don’t have any problem with Jeep making fancy vehicles. The, the, the Wagon ear, the grand wagon ear are fantastic vehicles. Uh, but I don’t think that the, the Jeep brand needs to be a luxury brand. I think it needs to have the brand for the rednecks and people like me, uh, and for the luxury, I think there’s plenty of room there, uh, for both.(…) Well, there certainly is. And, and sometimes, um, you can get a little bit lost in chasing profits, I think.(…) And you look at Land Rover,(…) Range Rover.(…) Um, you look at some of these other makers, you look at Mercedes G-wagons, go, holy cow, they’re $200,000. And why aren’t we in that market? There’s got to be huge margins and you can get a bit caught up in that. And I’m not suggesting that’s what they did. But you still got to remember that core Jeep value. There’s a seven bar grill. There’s, there’s off-road capability and never lose sight of what that stuff looks like and what that means to, um, that core group of people, uh, that are Jeep enthusiasts and, and the aspirational aspect of it, even if they’re not going off-roading.
(…)
All right. So, uh, do you think the leadership has it in, has this in mind?
(…)
I think there’s no question that they’re getting back to the core values. They’re getting back to core values. They’re understanding the price value equation there. They’re acknowledging all of these things. Let’s face it. And I’m not defending anybody here. We can all have strong opinions on some things, but there were a lot of auto companies that, and I’ll include Jeep and others in that, but there were a lot of auto companies that thought 2020, 2021 was the new normal, or at least they hoped that that was the new normal. Everybody would buy everything that you could possibly build for whatever price you wanted to charge for it.
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And.
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Anybody that’s been around long enough, former auto dealer, former power sports dealer that I am, I knew that was not going to be a thing forever. Um, you know, it was not a fundamental shift. It was a, it was a huge bump. Um,(…) yeah, this isn’t, this isn’t a 10 season sci-fi show that was, that was destined to end and yeah, so thankfully. Yeah. And, and it did. And now the market, uh, like many things, a bit like a pendulum, you know, the pendulum swings way over to one side and then it tends to swing back over to the other side and that’s kind of the moment we’re at now, I think that’s kind of the moment that the industry as a whole is at and, and now it’s, it’s writing itself and it’s right sizing itself and prices are right sizing themselves,(…) um, brand value, uh, is, is, you know, correcting and Jeep, I could make a strong argument that Jeep may be the most valuable brand in all of automotive, some people would say Porsche, some people would say Ferrari. Uh, I, I don’t know. And there’s probably good arguments for that too, but, but there’s little question that Jeep has, if not the one of the most powerful, one of the most recognizable, one of the most valuable brands, and they just got to remain true to, to what that brand means. Right. Um, and I’ve said this before, I probably said it to you last time we were, uh, doing the interview. I think that the Jeep needs to come out with something, uh, like the Mahindra. And actually I think Stellantis should have partnered with Mahindra and sold those things, uh, for golf carts, uh, if nothing else, because it’s very much a, uh, uh, the way the old Jeeps were, and it’s less expensive than the ones they’re making, and I understand that would hurt the bottom line, perhaps on some of the Wrangler and gladiator sales. Uh, but it’s a, it’s a nice wide range. Uh, I think it’s the shortcut that was a 2016, uh, Jeep concept vehicle. It was just a very basic two door, no doors, uh, vehicle. I think it had three six in it and, uh, open, open, and it was just a, a, a, get off road for the least amount of money type thing. And I think they would have sold a boatload of those things. And it’s not even like anything they would have to, I don’t think anything that they would have to redesign anything. They just don’t put a lot of shit on it. Well, great point. And, and there’s certainly a place for that. I’m not aware of some product that’s coming out, but the value proposition(…) is, has got to be there. And I think that that’s a fantastic way to view that going back to your point about Roxor or about Mahindra.
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That’s fine. The regulation environment though, would never have that to happen. That’s true. And so to have made that into something that could be street legal,(…) um,(…) would have taken that value proposition. Hey, maybe it’s not street legal. Maybe you use it on the ranch. Maybe you use it, you take it off, take it off road. You have you ever seen Henderson’s, uh, uh, Mahindra?
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Oh, that thing’s amazing. Um, I’ve never seen it in person. I’ve seen it on in our zoom meetings and stuff that went pictures. So it’s really cool. Yeah, it’s there’s possibilities galore in that regard for a value priced vehicle, soft top only, um, you know, very basic, let’s not have every Giga bell and whistle. It doesn’t need 44s. It doesn’t need all the stuff. Um, but just a, a fundamental level of capability, uh, some final seats and, and off you go. That’s my memory of Jeeps from back when I got my first one. Um, you know, was CJ five CJ seven days. I’m I, when I said 146 years, I’m actually not way back. Oh, 130 is more realistic. So I agree, but certainly CJ era. And yeah, you, you got the basics. That’s that’s how they came. And, uh, it was great. So you mentioned that, uh, Jeep is probably one of the most important, uh, brands out there of all the, uh, the manufacturers. And this kind of dovetails into the other thing I wanted to talk to you about. Uh, uh, definitely not Jeep related, but automotive related and it’s changing technology. Uh, I’m a Tesla, uh, uh, stock owner. So I’ve been following Tesla for a while. I watch a lot of YouTube videos and, uh, about Tesla people talking about Teslas. Uh, and they keep talking about the stock going up and it doesn’t, uh, but that’s fine. It’s, it’s a long-term investment for me. And, uh, but the thing that surprises me a lot about the Tesla is they’re, they’re doing like what I’m talking about doing Jeep with, with making something simple. And they’re doing that with electric vehicles. Uh, I mean, they’re basically making, uh, you remember the Hot Wheels? Uh, they’re basically pressing these things in a big press so that they have like one piece and they add a couple of things onto it and a motor here to motor there and a big battery pack. And, uh, it is amazing how they are simplifying this. And I don’t see any other auto manufacturer doing this. And I think that is a, I think that is ultimately going to make Tesla a much cheaper and better built, uh, system. Now add on top of that, I mean, it’s fine. If you’re just making a car, you’re making a new Hot Wheels. Uh, and it goes around electric motors. This is very much like some of the stuff I played with when I was a kid. I just didn’t ride in it. Um, now add on top of that, uh, the AI generated full self-driving and they’re moving to unsupervised full self-driving. In fact, I don’t know if you, if you caught this or not, they made a delivery to, uh, to a customer, uh, in Texas. Uh, the car drove itself to the, the, the, the purchaser’s house.(…) And so you’re going to see a massive change. I don’t see any other auto manufacturers doing this. I’m sure they’re working on it in the backend. Uh, but my question is, are these, is Jeep going to be left behind because they’re not, I mean, they’re big into adding stuff on, but they, they’re not doing some of the things that are going to be transformational, I feel in our world. Uh, I recently wrote a story posted up on LinkedIn about, uh, you, uh, you take your, your full self-driving, uh, Tove, Tove rig and tell it to go to Moab and you attach a trailer to it and the Jeep and it drives there. You jump on a plane, you fly out to Moab, no, no 20 hours, you know, maybe three or four, uh, you fly out there, you meet your tow rig and your Jeep, you take the drape off the trailer, you drive around, have fun, but you still doing the Jeep thing, but now you don’t have all that, all that time invested in the traveling.(…) And I, I’m afraid, I mean, to me, a Ford, a Ford full-size Ford pickup would be a great tow rig, but right now, the only thing that’s full self-driving is a Cybertruck and Cybertruck just pissed people off. I don’t know why it’s, I got a couple of comments on there about that. How would rather walk the 20 hours? I think as one person said to Moab, uh, and I’m not a big, I’m not a Cybertruck fan or anything, it’s not really a truck to me. It’s just a car shaped more. It’s like an El Camino to me. Uh, it’s, you know, it’s not really a truck, but I can see a time coming.(…) Where, um,(…) internal combustion engine vehicles, there’s no reason why they can’t be full self-driving. I mean, they’re just using cameras. Tesla’s just using cameras to see and AI to decide on the local computer. What should be done? Um,(…) you see what I’m getting at here. It’s, it’s, it’s a technology that I think is going to be transformational. And I’m afraid Jeep’s going to get left behind because they’re not working to this aspect. I mean, if you can buy a vehicle that you can sleep in and while it’s driving and get to get to your destination or not have to deal with traffic, cause that’s what the car is doing. I mean, come on, it’s like a no brainer.
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(…) I,(…) so here, let me provide a bit of a counterpoint on the highway infrastructure simply does not exist. And let me preface all of this with, uh, I earlier in the year spent a good bit of time with some folks from SEMA, uh, in Washington, DC, and so on, because.
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A mandate is very different than a consumer choice. Yes. If people choose to buy EVs, I think that’s fantastic. And, and, and I like them in many cases, they work effectively. They do lots of things really well. Um, but there isn’t infrastructure as Sean Holman about trying to charge his EV in Orange County, the whole arguably the home of EV acceptance.(…) And it’s a constant struggle and they won’t take their EVs to various things because they can’t, Sean was with us in Washington, DC as well, by the way.
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And so when you look at the infrastructure that isn’t out there and the fact that the infrastructure that is out there in many cases is not operating properly. Yeah, it’s broken. It’s broken. And there’s no cures instantly for that 20 years from now. Will it be better? Of course. Yeah. There’s no question that it will be, but is electric the solution and we’re going to circle back to, we’re going to circle back to self-driving and all of that. But is electric the solution for that?
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Maybe it’s part of a solution. Maybe that’s a city vehicle and it, and it affords an effective solution for very short hops, the only place that you would have to charge it is at your home. And you can do that.
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But the other part of this is too many people are wrapped up in this idea that well, it has to be mandated because that’s going to save the earth and I’m exaggerating, so I get it. Oh no, I agree with you. I think that’s very accurate. It’s not going to save the earth. The emissions don’t save that much. The things that are associated with harvesting the necessary source minerals. Oh yeah. Some people call them conflict minerals because they come from areas where maybe are war torn and maybe labor practices. Is even conflict for the environment because they could be very unfriendly to the environment by collecting those things. No, you’re absolutely right. And then add to that the disposal of it.
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So all of those things I think conspire to make EVs not a practical choice in this moment, unless you work eight, 10 miles away. You can use that to drive to work. I think that’s fantastic. You can charge when you get home. You only have to charge once a week or twice a week or whatever. I think that’s amazing and it’s fantastic. And there’s now some EVs out there that work just great. Whether you want to pick Tesla or Ford Machi or, you know, for that matter, Kia and Hyundai have choices that are available.
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So I think all that’s really good. Does Jeep get left behind?(…) I hope so. Because Jeep needs to maintain its presence as an enthusiast vehicle. And I’m speaking specifically to Wrangler and Gladiator.
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4 by E has been very successful. Is that the perfect EV solution? Of course it is not, but it is part of an answer.
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And I think the other part of this is at some level, we don’t need to jump off a political cliff, but at some level, federal subsidies.
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Can’t be a thing forever and they aren’t going to be now. Right.
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So at what moment do we have a real acknowledgement of what the consumer wants to do because the consumer is ultimately the decider of things. And, and that includes, do they buy a Wrangler Rubicon or a Wrangler Sport?
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Is there an interest in an EV? A couple of the EV things that Jeep has coming are super effective and very nice to look at. Those were already in the pipeline. Yeah. I think like Recon, I think the, the Recon is pretty nice, like looking a little vehicle and, and I believe they made a change to that where it was going to be only EV, but because of the, the, the things that were going on politically and with the government, now they have a wide range. I think internal, also including the internal combustion engine, which I think is, it’s the way to do it. Consumer choice is like you said.(…) Well, I think it’s also interesting because we’re now using other brand names. I think it’s interesting that Toyota took a position like, nah, we’re not all in on that. We’re not going all in on that. We’re going to look at all of the ways that are out there, which is inclusive of hybrid, much like a Wrangler 4 by E. We’re going to look at, at what’s available in the hydrogen space. We’re going to look at all of these alternatives that are out there, many of which happen to be cleaner than a traditional ice, but a question that I ask frequently and people smarter than me ask this question frequently.(…) Where would the ice engine be if the same billions of dollars were invested in ice that ended up being invested in EV and how clean, how efficient, how fuel sipping could they be? I think they’re pretty amazing in their current form when you look at some of the Oh, there’s more of the horsepower that’s available now. I remember back in the late seventies where if you got 300 horsepower out of a 350, you were doing really good. You were really something. It, well, let’s use Corvette as an example. That’s held up as kind of the American icon in terms of a performance car.(…) Late seventies, early eighties,(…) a Corvette was 185 horsepower. Wow.
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What? That’s a Corvette. Yeah. It was terrible and it was a slug to boot, not even a good 185.
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And so you look back on that stuff. You’re right. 300 horsepower is like, Oh, no way. That thing’s got 300 horsepower. Now everything’s got 300 horse. Yeah.
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So it’s a good point. And also to, I’ll just make this point again for the full self driving conversation. You do not have to have electric vehicle for full self driving.
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If Tesla is concerned about making driving 10 times safer because now the vehicle is making the decisions for you, why would you not want to have that technology in internal combustion engines? Are those people,(…) are they too stupid or they killing the planet and now they need to be weeded out so we’re not going to give them full self driving. You see what I’m saying? I mean, obviously there has to be some controls. I mean, if, if you’re not doing a drive by wire and don’t have connection to all the parts on the vehicle, those things would have to be put in, but that’s all technically possible. So there’s no reason why you couldn’t have a Ford F two 50 that was full self driving using the same technology that the Tesla is doing. If it was licensed to Ford or if it was licensed to Jeep, and this is what I’m talking about, I think this technology is, is something that is going to have to happen with manufacturers, because if you have the, if you can either be driven, I mean, obviously you can decide if you want to drive or not. If you remember the movie, I robot where Will Smith took, took over the car at 300 miles an hour, the pastor says, are you crazy?(…) Yeah.
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But Will’s a man, dammit. I’ll drive. Yeah. Come on.
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I think to your point about how awesome would it be to send your self driving vehicle out to Moab towing your trailer and you just show up at, at Moab. Oh, you’re a millionaire. You’re just like a millionaire at that point. I’m going to fly in. It would be awesome. I love it. The, the issue that exists is where does it fuel up? How does it recharge? How does it do all of those things? Obviously I know it doesn’t need sleep like us for any of us that do that run out to Moab out to Colorado, out to Utah.(…) Well, for me, two or three times, four times a year from Detroit, for sure. I get it. I don’t love that drive. Um, but that said, I don’t know how you would get something that’s self-driving to charge itself or fuel itself and do all the things, but technology, it’s amazing. So, uh, I don’t want to get too deep off into this, this area thing and Tesla hasn’t put it into production yet, but they bought a German company. That does inductive charging. Yeah. So the van that they were using for this company would just pull over the pad. And it’s just like, you know, like you do your phone, putting the inductive charger. It’s not as efficient as being plugged in. And the, and the other answer to that is, uh, Optimus robots, which is another thing that’s coming out and robots in general are coming out. So you literally could have a robot in the vehicle and then it goes and plugs it in. Now, if it can find a charger or not, and I’m sure people be on their phone going, where the hell’s my Jeep? Where the hell’s my Jeep? Why is it way over there? Nervous. Could you imagine having two very expensive vehicles traveling across country by itself? And the other, that’d be so good. Yeah. And the other option to that is, is that if you’re really cheap, you can just sleep in the vehicle. You don’t have to, you know, you don’t have to, it’s just you 20 plus hours straight through, I mean, a bundle of nerves. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, and this is obvious. I mean, can you imagine people that came over across the, from the east to the west and Conestoga wagons. And if they were told that you would be driving vehicles that were six feet apart, closing at 120 miles an hour. Yeah.
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Yeah. So it’s, it’s this technology. It is. And, and, um, look, selfishly, I hope there is something like that. It would be great. I’d never have to hire a guy to drive my truck out until my rig or do any of that stuff would be fantastic. It would be like, we are all multimillionaires and we had a staff. And I just think that, I think that it may be Jeeps working on this. I haven’t heard anything about it, but I think that these companies better start licensing, uh, this, this technology. And I don’t think Waymo has the technology with a Lidar and stuff. I think Tesla has the ultimate technology and it’s all goes back to AI, uh, figuring out to this stuff. They don’t know how it works. I don’t think they know how the self-driving stuff works. It just works. In the end, what I never want to lose touch with, and I hope that Jeep and an enthusiast brands in general will never lose touch with is the driving experience. Oh yeah. And when we do these off-road one-on-one courses,(…) the first thing we do is say, turn off all those nannies, you got to learn how to do this the real way. Exactly. If you choose to use Hill descent, whatever it might be. Okay. We’ll have that conversation later. But first you need to know the feel you got to have a feel. How does this feel when you’re doing these things? What is slip? How does that look? Uh, all of these things. So I hope that humans, us will never lose touch with the excitement and the thrill of going and doing real off-roading, taking our Jeeps out and doing really fun off-roading things. And yeah, sometimes. Scaring the Hebrew Jeepers out of ourself. Yeah. You know, going up or down something or across something or, you know, whatever that might be,(…) I just find that to be the rewarding piece and it’s, it’s amazing. Driving even on the road is, is a fun thing to do.(…) Not having to do it all the time though, would be nice. Cause there’s times whenever you just don’t feel like it. And especially when there’s traffic. Um, so, uh, yeah, I just think, I think this is a critical bit that a lot of the manufacturers seem to me not to be addressing and I think they need to. And if they don’t, it’s going to be bad for them, uh, in the long run because, uh, uh, Tesla and other vehicles, uh, the manufacturers that license the Tesla full self-driving technology are going to leapfrog in my opinion. So anyway, and also too, in the story that I wrote, it wasn’t about not taking the Jeep off-road, it was just about using the technology to get the Jeep to where it needed to be. And actually the Jeep could have driven itself as well. Uh, but obviously there is, there is a refueling issue even with ice vehicles. I mean, there’s plenty of places to fill up, but how do you get the nozzle into the, into the Jeep?
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That’s where we need a robot. Yeah. Um, in the meantime, to tell you a really rewarding story that kind of evolved over the last couple of years, Karen Bailey Chapman, who heads up all the government affairs stuff for SEMA is an enthusiast of things that lacked a ton of experiences.
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And she came out to Moab with us. We took her out. She was pretty nervous about a number of things. We may have put her into some circumstances that made her nervous.
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Um, it was fantastic.(…) Um, and, and then last year she also competed in our West Virginia hellfest event in her sports car.
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And to me, those are some of the most rewarding things. When I see three parts to this, when I see a person without a great deal of experience, come out and do the things.
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Then I see somebody in a very high level position within our industry.
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That’s out there doing the hard work on the daily that is a genuine enthusiast and wants to do the things.
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And last but not least, not part of the good old boys club.
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It’s a girl who’s like, no, I got this. You know, be patient with me. Show me spot me.(…) And this year, the way that she operated on trail was something that was entirely different than the year before. She’s got a confidence. She’s got a little bit of pep in her step and, and she’s like, yeah, yeah, that still makes me a little bit nervous, but I got this. That’s good.(…) It’s, oh, it’s just wonderful. And so I commend, and there’s dozens of other stories like that, but that one is very visible within the industry. And so we love to see that kind of thing happen where, where we have people that are genuine enthusiasts in the industry, not just doing a job. Yeah. Well, I mean, you get this situation where people are making decisions. And they have no real world experience,(…) even from an enthusiast perspective. Uh, they don’t get it. Uh, and I think we’ve seen a lot of trail closures like in Moab because of this is the, these people, they don’t want people to go out there. They’re going to make people are going to mess it up. Well, have you, have you gone out there? Have you gone on a hike? Have you taken a bicycle out there? Have you been in a Jeep?
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You know, and then when that happens, I think it gives them a better perspective on things. So yeah, perspective, I think really helps the decision making. Yeah. I’m going to put on my tread lightly hat for just a minute.(…) It’s such a critical role that all the organizations that are out there helping protect and keep open, uh, AR public lands. That’s certainly been in the, in the news an awful lot with, with everything that happened, uh, recently on that in the BBB and then, and then just those organizations that are trying to do,(…) whether it’s a cleanup, whether it’s trail signs, or there is a place. It’s not the place of tread lightly, but there are places for other organizations when legal action needs to be taken. And there’s a spot for that as well. All of those things need to be done. But, but I think one of the most important things is, is the educational element. And when we do welcome new people in, teach them a bit about the trail, the athletic kit part, teach them a little bit about why it’s so important that we work with people to keep these trails open, keep our recreation places open. And, and what all that means. So it’s, I love that piece. All right, Tom, we’re going to wrap up here. Uh, you need to get on to bigger and better things. And I told you, I was going to, not that you were asking me to, but I told you, I know that you’re busy and I was going to make sure I kept an eye on the time before we wrap up.
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And I’m not sure that you’re going to have any information on Sean here that, that you wanted to cover before we leave, but you mentioned, uh, Sean holdman, and of course, many of us were very concerned for Sean and, and I’ll just say more so for his daughter than him,(…) but we’re very concerned about the accident that he had going to a Easter Jeep Safari this year. Um, if you have, do you have any information on Sean? Sean, have you, have you spoken to him? I mean, I’ve, I’ve seen the, the post that he’s made and that he and his, uh,
(…)
considering the, the crash, uh, that happened. Uh, and Sean, um, Sean is the, uh, the truck show podcast, uh, if you guys aren’t aware of it, so, uh, you can go over there and I’m sure find out lots of information. Do we know what, what the problem, what happened? Because I mean, that 392 is, which is just so sad in itself, uh, just completely totaled. Yeah. Who cares? Who cares about Sean and his daughter? He wrecked a 392 for goodness sake. It was, it was torn up so bad. You can’t even ask about, are you going to part it out? You know, that’s whatever all the Jeepers do. Um, yeah, true friends that we are. That’s great.
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But, um, no, in all seriousness, it’s his story to tell, of course, but, but obviously the injuries were, were of great consequence.(…) Uh, thank goodness, not dire. And thank goodness, not in this case, you know, uh, a life threatening situation, but dire nonetheless. And, and so, um, it seems as though his recovery is coming along. He and his daughter, both,(…) um, their recovery is coming along very nicely. And, and I think, uh, that you’ll see Sean back in the mix very soon. Obviously, um, you know, a huge blessing, uh, that, that, that’s the way that went rather than a,(…) a much different outcome, which given the severity, yeah, it, it could have been very different than that. So I think everybody, all of the friends and all of the colleagues around the industry are, are really grateful that it turned out the way it did. And, and I might mention some folks down in, in the greater Austin Hill country, um, stuff. God bless all those folks.
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Horrible tragedy. I know that there’s a lot of people that are out there trying to help with rescue efforts. I know there’s a lot of colleagues from the off-road space that are trying to help with rescue efforts out there. And, um, and it’s just, it’s, it’s, uh, terrible to see those things, terrible to see those natural disasters that unfortunately just can’t be predicted or handled. Well, you actually were, uh, we’re working with the hidden falls adventure park about doing an event out there. And, uh, so recently, yes, the, the hidden falls are not hidden. The falls are running right now. I posted up. I got a video. Yeah. The falls are, are anything except hidden. Uh, the falls are falling in every direction, but they have, they have multiple trail closed trails closed at hidden falls right now because of all that rain. Cause they’re, they’re in the marble falls area. They’re not, uh, they’re not in, um, I forget what’s not, not Kirk’sville. I can’t remember the name of it now. I’m brain farting. It’s so funny you get on here and no matter how much I do this, I still get nervous about when I’m, when I’m doing the show and talking. Um, but the, the, the area that took all the damage. So it’s actually widespread. We have some people in Austin. They’re just fine. I mean, they got some rain, but, uh, yeah, so you just never know in Texas. Uh, I mean, I tell people don’t put, uh, steps on your, your Jeep because you may get hung up. Oh, I’m not going to go off road. Well, okay, fine. What if you’re involved in a flood or a natural disaster? Do you really want that Jeep not to be able to go, uh, over in things that could save your life? So with that, I will say the same thing that I always say, you know, how the kids love the social media, Tom, how can they find you? We’ve mentioned for fest events.com, which is a great site to go to, especially if you’re in the, uh, would you say the Detroit area would be the thing where, uh, for the Detroit for a fast, you have the winter fast, the snow fast, the mud fast are all there. Some years it’s all of those things at one time. Um, it, um, uh, ask Chris, um, no, we, yeah, for fest events.com for sure. For fest events on Instagram, uh, same on Facebook, um, we, we just love getting everybody engaged. Obviously our next big, big, big one is, is September five and six with Detroit for fast. So really excited to a welcome Jeep back of course, and then welcome, uh, right now almost 100 other, um, sponsoring and vending companies that are joining us. And it’s essentially the who’s who from around, uh, the off-road industry is, is going to be there and, uh, and always grateful for, uh, for all of that support. And we, we love hosting events that people come to, to go off-roading and we give all of those amazing marketing partners and sponsors the opportunity to show their stuff off in the real world, not in a convention center, but like, yeah, we’re going out there on that trail. Let’s go see what this stuff will do. Yeah, it’s great. It’s wonderful. And Chris enjoys it so much every year. And we, and we really appreciate you having us out there. All right, Tom, thank you so much. Uh, have a great day and I’ll let you get to your other meetings. Tony, thank you so much. It’s great to be here. Let’s go Jeep talk show. See
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You’re my friend, you’re my new friend.